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Day One
May 27, 2008 16:31:50 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on May 27, 2008 16:31:50 GMT -5
Barring some brilliance on Atarus' part, I see no practical way to prevent flipped townies from declaring their flippedness. Seems to me he might have figured out a way.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 16:37:39 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 27, 2008 16:37:39 GMT -5
Barring some brilliance on Atarus' part, I see no practical way to prevent flipped townies from declaring their flippedness. Seems to me he might have figured out a way. umm...care to elaborate?
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Day One
May 27, 2008 17:23:53 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on May 27, 2008 17:23:53 GMT -5
Sorry, no, I wouldn't. Errr...that is to say, yes, I would like to, but I won't. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing that'd be good for my health.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 17:34:02 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 27, 2008 17:34:02 GMT -5
Sorry, no, I wouldn't. Errr...that is to say, yes, I would like to, but I won't. Doesn't seem like the kind of thing that'd be good for my health. Fair enough, I figured as much. So...should we lynch you then?
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Day One
May 27, 2008 17:49:36 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on May 27, 2008 17:49:36 GMT -5
Fair enough, I figured as much. So...should we lynch you then? Thank you...that made me laugh out loud. But no, I'd prefer that you didn't. I'm sure there's someone in town who has a better...solution.
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Merestil Haye
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Day One
May 27, 2008 17:56:57 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 27, 2008 17:56:57 GMT -5
Well, such fun.
One thing that needs to be added into the What We Know list - we're shut into the village. No-one can get in or out.
On to my hypotheses about the Enemy.
It seems reasonable to suggest that Corporeal demons are vulnerable to regular methods of elimination - that is, if we lynch one, or if a Vig cuts the head off one they're out of the game, and so on. It's been suggested that they are a bunch of Godfathers, but that's not necessarily the case. We know they react to Holy Water just as humans do, but we don't know that Holy Water is the only way to identify demons.
Incorporeal demons are a different question. What we know about them is a different question. We know that they can possess humans. We know that they react to Holy Water. And we know that they can be driven out of the body they are possessing.
What we don't know is what happens if we lynch a possessed human.
My hypothesis is that the demon can attempt to possess another player. There may be restrictions on what role the player can hold. (I doubt, for example, that an incorporeal demon can possess a corporeal one). Thus the number of players in the incorporeal faction remains constant. I also hypothesise that the only way to reduce the number of incorporeal demons is to exorcise them.
That's my Day 1 thought about what we face.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 18:00:28 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on May 27, 2008 18:00:28 GMT -5
I had a similar though, MHaye, but that means that if we ever lose the ability to perform an exorcism(for example, if that's somebody's power and they die), then we lose.
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Merestil Haye
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Day One
May 27, 2008 18:13:10 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 27, 2008 18:13:10 GMT -5
I had a similar though, MHaye, but that means that if we ever lose the ability to perform an exorcism(for example, if that's somebody's power and they die), then we lose. That's true. I can think of a couple of ways to make the town able to survive the death of the exorcist. The most likely is that there's a succession mechanism - when the exorcist dies someone else gets to take up the mantle. (We've had a game with succession mechanisms - the Firefly game. If either the Doc or Cop died, another player discovered notes and materials and took the role up. In actual play the successor Doc died early, long before the original Doc did, but the Cop was offed on Night 4 (iirc) and his successor got another 4 days or so before being killed off by the brainwashed traitor. The original Cop in that game was none other than Atarus. So he's seen successor mechanisms used.)
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Day One
May 27, 2008 18:24:10 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on May 27, 2008 18:24:10 GMT -5
Ah, that's a thought. This is pure speculation on my part but the succession could work just like you theorized the S2 demons work: there's a (good) supernatural entity "possessing" a player in the game; that player is able to perform exorcisms. If that player dies, they keep trying to choose a successor(maybe they get one try per Night or something). When they've chosen a possessable player, that player becomes the exorcist.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 18:56:11 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 27, 2008 18:56:11 GMT -5
Seems to me he might have figured out a way. Ok. You were pinging the holy crap outa me for a bit there, but I guess we can let this go now. You say they can talk, I'm off to reread and see what that means.
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Gir!
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Day One
May 27, 2008 19:26:35 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on May 27, 2008 19:26:35 GMT -5
Okay, this is gonna be real quick, because I'm going out to dinner in like 2 minutes.
I haven't seen this particular point covered (if it was, forgive me, I was in a rush to finish reading everything before I left):
Underlining mine.
This could be a hint that either:
(1) The exorcist has a chance of not correctly exorcising
or
(2) There may be something like the Apprentice from the Cult game, in which if the exorcist dies, there's a successor that may take over the exorcisms, but not always succeeding (in that game, the Apprentice's chances of success depended on whether he was located and tutored)
or
(3) There are multiple exorcists to begin with, and one, some or all of them have a less than 100% chance of exorcising successfully
or
(4) Opening color means nothing and there's no exorcists at all, in which case we're screwed (I hope not)
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Day One
May 27, 2008 19:38:41 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 27, 2008 19:38:41 GMT -5
I would agree that it is in the best interest of the town for any possessed survivors to immediately declare that they are possessed. But, I doubt that it'd ever work out that way. It seems to me like the whole mechanic would be pointless if it was that easy. Scum possesses player, player declares possession, exorcism performed, and the whole thing was a waste of time. I can certainly think of at least one way in which a possessed player would be motivated or even prevented outright from announcing the possession.
However, I do like the idea that we should ignore any claim of possession that is made under duress. If we are willing to believe any such claim we give the scum an easy out.
Also, Hal seems to making it clear that he knows more than the rest of us...it makes me suspicious...
--FCOD
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Darth Sensitive
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Day One
May 27, 2008 19:40:16 GMT -5
Post by Darth Sensitive on May 27, 2008 19:40:16 GMT -5
1) A number of survivors are already possessed by S2 demons and the town has an exorcism ability that can turn an S2 demon possessed survivor to the town side. Seems to me that's the most likely scenario. I believe that this is most likely as well. Am I correct in thinking that we're on the same wavelength in general, Hal? Practically, that means we must confront the question of what to do if we are possessed. I think it should be understood that any townie who gets possessed by a demon should quickly report it. Are you serious? I think it's pretty obvious that a possessed player either wouldn't want or wouldn't be able to say that they are possessed. I'm not really sure how this sort of game mechanic would work. That is, what is to prevent a possessed survivor from saying he/she is possessed? I am thinking that it's more likely that the S2 possessed players are already possessed and that the only type of "recruitment" in the game is a scum->town exorcism. --FCOD Possessed to me implies that the demon has control over things, like not being able to say that they're possessed in a straightforward manner. Town flipping to type II and back wouldn't make much sense to me based on the discussions about vampires in the other game.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 20:24:33 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on May 27, 2008 20:24:33 GMT -5
I like MHaye's idea about the Type 2 demons. Where they behave like Azazel from Fallen. (If you haven't seen that movie - go and find it - very cool). So we would need to do an exorcism to kill them, as a lynch would result in the demon simply possessing someone else. Which I am thinking would be played out as the original demon's host would be finished in the game, and the new host is recruited to the scums side.
And I doubt the player could announce they have been possessed, as they are no longer a human, the demon is running the show not the person.
2 Things are required for this set up to work, #1 - as has been mentioned we would need a succesion system for whoever it is that has the power of exorcism. (otherwise a lucky scum kill or misguided lynch would mean game over with no way to kill a type 2 demon)
#2 - A Type 2 demon doesn't know who the other demons are, because if they are exorcised, and the host is recruited back to town they can then immediately reveal the other scum lock stock, which means game over for the scum.
#2a - the above can be solved if the host is also killed by the exorcism. Bad luck for them but at least we bagged a demon.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 20:35:15 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 27, 2008 20:35:15 GMT -5
Ok.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 20:36:36 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 27, 2008 20:36:36 GMT -5
Pfft.
Mods? Little help, one post up?
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RoOsh
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Day One
May 27, 2008 22:15:22 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 27, 2008 22:15:22 GMT -5
Heh, most of you know my stance on "flippedness" from the Vampire discussions in the other game. But just in case- I'm very pro-Telling the town if you're flipped and if there's a chance you can win with the Town. But I think Atarus probably saw that, and devised a way around it. Like mhaye's suggestion of a succession for the whole process, one that works in the town's favor. I like that idea, it's a very cool mechanism, and it certainly would allow for better balancing- to have someone townie "learn" the mechanisms for removing the D2's once the original dude dies. Reminds me of the movie " Tales from the Crypt: Demon Knight", a film that both Us REALLY REALLY enjoy. It's cheesy, but I'm a fan of that movie, and so is atarus, so I could totally see a mechanism similar in flavor to those two roles- the demon hunter vs. the Badass Billy Zane. Makes me think of the idea of the D2 could possible be like its own group- a role that "posses bodies" and there's an independent role out there that is looking for said special demon with the means to take it down. I like it. And if I were making a Demonic Mafia game, I'd have to include a Billy Zane throwback SOME where... but would Atarus? That's the Key.... On Lists:I believe it was NAF who said stuff on keeping "what we know lists". I'm not a fan of "trust lists" and things like that just from what happened in M2, and it makes me paranoid and kinda squicked out to hear about lists. However, a "What We Know" List, if it's based solely on facts, could be a useful thing. I like hard Data- vote counts, voting patterns, that's all stuff that you can't WIFOM on was it done or wasn't it done. A vote is a vote, and it's there and done. Sure, you gotta examine motivations and stuff like that, but that's why you have to look at the Data for that sorta thing. So I'm gonna be chill about these lists things of yours. I'd like to seem 'em in action, and sure they may be helpful to us in terms of reminding us what we know and don't know, but I don't see what we can really do with that sorta stuff. What I'd really like to know more about is that " Motivation" stuff you advocate, NAF. Can you explain it to me a bit more? As I couldn't ask in the last game, since you were the Mod, but I've been trying to follow and apply your Motivation stuff as I think it's useful, but I'd like to know more about it. Care to share your thoughts based on all the games we've had so far? And Hal- You're being Shatner-esque. That's... kinda... odd.... ...I don't know... what to make of it. But it draws attention to you. And THAT makes ME more paranoid. Because that's not what I think of as "normal" scum behavior. So... I'll give you the ol' eyeball of suspicion on Hal , but nothing more serious yet. As its more just Odd than scummy.
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RoOsh
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Day One
May 27, 2008 22:19:44 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 27, 2008 22:19:44 GMT -5
Also, about 20 players have checked in and said what's up and all so far. We're still missing like 5 people, and it's been 2 days and 4 pages. I hope they check in or something soon, as I don't want to hear a bunch of whining "Oh the Thread is SOOO long now! I just can't possibly catch up toDay! sort of excuses by people to not post a lot and just let this Day pass without saying something. Lurking is NOT useful to the Town, it's not unnecessarily scummy, but it's not something that I like seeing. Whining while lurking and not posting content- that's even more annoying though. (No Offense Tragic- you were good at this though. And it's something we deliberately did in Blade Runner. So I'm keeping an Eye on You and a few others for that.... As you certainly are well aware of those tricks. )
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Day One
May 27, 2008 22:20:48 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on May 27, 2008 22:20:48 GMT -5
But no, I'd prefer that you didn't. I'm sure there's someone in town who has a better...solution. So Hal, let's ask the question that's really on everyone's mind.... How do you feel about shoes? I'm sure you know what I mean.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 22:30:20 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on May 27, 2008 22:30:20 GMT -5
OH GREAT AND POWERFUL MOD, DOES THE OPENING COLOR CONTAIN CLUES RE:GAME SETUP AND ROLES OR IS IT JUST TELLING US THAT WE ARE AFTER DEAMONS. MOREOVER, SHOULD WE BE PAYING ATTENTION TO FUTURE GAME COLOR POSTS? Yes, there are hints to the game setup within the opening color. There may or may not be red herrings in the opening color as well. That's for me to know and you to find out. As for future color, all future color posts will be purely for entertainment value, no more gameplay hints will be given via color. OH GREAT AND POWERFUL MOD, WILL YOU TELL US IF THER IS ANY FACTION THAT IS ALLOWED TO DISCUSS THE GAME OUTSIDE OF THE GAME THREAD DURRING THE DAY? Scum cannot talk during the Day.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 22:32:23 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 27, 2008 22:32:23 GMT -5
How do you feel about shoes? I'm sure you know what I mean. Back from my reread, and this is totally what I'm wondering. I mean, where else is the motivation? What are you doing, Hal? FOS Hal Briston
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Day One
May 27, 2008 22:59:27 GMT -5
Post by tdpatriots12 on May 27, 2008 22:59:27 GMT -5
What Hal is doing seems kind of... obvious. At least, I think I'm getting the message, but I'm not sure I buy it.
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Day One
May 27, 2008 23:15:05 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on May 27, 2008 23:15:05 GMT -5
What Hal is doing seems kind of... obvious. At least, I think I'm getting the message, but I'm not sure I buy it. Care to share? It just doesn't make a damned bit of sense to me to paint a giant target on his face just to derail some idle speculation on day one, and what else has he accomplished? I'd have voted for him already, except for Darth, and I'm still not entirely convinced by that - whatever kinda buddy Darth thinks he found, he could be wrong. I just don't see the play, so if I'm being ignorant, please enlighten me. From where I'm sitting, this looks like a very very silly move by town, or a very very gutsy move by scum. I'll guess we'll find out which in the Morning.
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Day One
May 28, 2008 1:03:43 GMT -5
Post by hockeyguy8435 on May 28, 2008 1:03:43 GMT -5
True, it may seems very odd, but is it worth the risk of voting someone who may have reason to say what he said?
Also, what has anyone accomplished? The game started a day ago, no one has caught any scum yet, or done anything big for the town. Everything is idle speculation at this point.
But yeah, I also don't see what Hal is attempting to do, but I'm not going to press him on why he's not choosing to reveal what he "found". Not yet anyway...
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Day One
May 28, 2008 7:03:39 GMT -5
Post by Tragic on May 28, 2008 7:03:39 GMT -5
(No Offense Tragic- you were good at this though. And it's something we deliberately did in Blade Runner. So I'm keeping an Eye on You and a few others for that.... As you certainly are well aware of those tricks. ) I would expect no less from you, Roosh. And careful with that pink eye, you don't want to spread it around the town, lol.
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Day One
May 28, 2008 9:02:52 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on May 28, 2008 9:02:52 GMT -5
Am I correct in thinking that we're on the same wavelength in general, Hal? We're on exactly the same wavelength. Hopefully others will pay close attention to what you said (in post #102). How do you feel about shoes? I'm sure you know what I mean. They hurt my feet, and I'd like to take them off.
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Day One
May 28, 2008 9:02:59 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 28, 2008 9:02:59 GMT -5
Sorry folks, for my absence during the first part of the Day. Serious issues at home. I will be reading and posting presently.
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Day One
May 28, 2008 9:08:10 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 28, 2008 9:08:10 GMT -5
Well, my Demonometer TM is going off like crazy... Obviously we have three players that know something the rest of us don't...what should we do about it? I tend to think that any group that knows something I don't is bad, but then again they may be some sort of Mason group. My head hurts . --FCOD
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Day One
May 28, 2008 9:39:25 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on May 28, 2008 9:39:25 GMT -5
For the official record:
Blaster Master has taken CatinaSuit's place.
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Day One
May 28, 2008 10:12:36 GMT -5
Post by Nanook on May 28, 2008 10:12:36 GMT -5
They hurt my feet, and I'd like to take them off. For those of you following along and not understanding this whole back and forth, in the Three Kingdoms game, there were 3 scum factions. There was also a townie aligned doctor that could only protect against one of the three factions. Roosh was the Shu aligned doctor. However, the doctors were prohibited from role claiming. If they ever did they lost their powers immediately. Roosh was forced into claiming. He did so in a very imaginative way. You have to read it to fully grasp how well done it was. Unfortunately, he said that he hated shoes, rather than footwear, so he got stripped anyways. My impression, and the purpose of my question, is that Hal is claiming to have been possessed by a type 2 demon, the kind that can be driven out by holy water. However he apparently is prohibited from just coming out and saying so directly. Or maybe I'm misreading the whole situation.
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