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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:20:10 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 24, 2008 15:20:10 GMT -5
But I am completely for putting the pressure on someone else - the following people strike me as suspect (In no particular order): - Idle Hands (For a weird claim) - Peeker (For claiming miller, which could be a good alibi to avoid an investigation) - FCOD (For wanting the candy) Wait, what? You think it's weird to claim Doctor? There has been a Doctor-like role in every game I've ever seen. It's not that weird of a role. And if you mean weird as in, when I claimed it (Day One), that's not all that weird, either, IMO. It's been done before and doesn't mean one is nessacarily scummy.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:20:26 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Sept 24, 2008 15:20:26 GMT -5
Erm... I made a full roleclaim. The only thing I have ever withheld from the first time I claimed was my title. (Let's not confuse it with names, I don't HAVE a name.) I've told you what I know, what I do, and what the effects are. A lot of people conveniently jumped on that. Look at them. So, let me get this straight Your Role name: Arcade Your Power: You hand out candy at Night Your Effect: ?? molefan1981: Apologies for this but I cannot find where you said what the effect of your candy is. But in your post above, you said you had said what the effects are. Please can you clarify? If anyone else can find it, that would be useful. I will clarify: I have no knowledge of what the candy does. My role PM simply doesn't say. I have certain suspicions, which I've already posted, but they are not in any way mod-confirmed.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:21:13 GMT -5
Post by Zeriel on Sept 24, 2008 15:21:13 GMT -5
Chucara - Scum aren't stupid--if a scum gets this much traction with a majority, it's equally likely that the rest of the scum will pile on to get a "confirmed vote for a scum kill" on their track record.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:21:14 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Sept 24, 2008 15:21:14 GMT -5
You absolutely are one of the few doing the heavy lifting. And that isn't right. You call my vote for Roosh suspicious, but I don't say why. My vote for Roosh was two fold 1) to get him to post or sub mission accomplished and vote removed 2) if he wouldn't post or sub, to remove him from the game since he will be a hinderance later on. We might not learn a lot right away, but we wouldn't learn any less than we learned from lynching molefan, and he would no longer be a dead weight on the informational situation of the game. I could vote for someone else at this point, but I wanted to see what you would do if I voted for you. Your reaction was interesting since you basically accused me of OMGUS voting you, when that really isn't what I did. You have taken positions that I find contrary to your past behavior, so I placed a vote. Mole is behaving EXACTLY as you did in M5, and frankly the way several pro town players have acted in the past. I suppose what I am saying is that his soft claim may have been anti town, but it wasn't particularly pro scum. And anti town behavior != scumtell. Townies do anti town crap all the time and you know it. But you are one of the handfull of people who has been goading mole and continuing the distraction of town so nothing real is getting talked about. There are other people involved in that situation too, but it seems more out of character from you than it does from others. So I voted and waited to see what you would do. I have no illusions of building a bandwagon on you or anyone toDay. This isn't even a great case against you, I will freely admit that. But it is a different case that what we have currently and frankley variety is a good thing at the moment. I guess it's fair to say I accused you of an OMGUS. But that is what it looked like. Now that you've explained your reasoning better, I think I see where you're coming from. But you're still wrong. Which game was M5? The Cult of Sekham? I made a clear claim in that game. I kept my powers secret, but that was the primary advantage I had in that game: no other players had hidden powers. molefan has given some reasons for keeping his name secret, but they were weak, especially when combined with his self-confessed "has no effects" powers. And when he did reveal his name, it turns out it is a clear-cut villain name. That doesn't mean he is Scum, but it sure makes it look like his reasons to not reveal before were a smokescreen to keep his name hidden. And that, I think, makes his actions more than just anti-Town. It points to a self-preservation behavior. Townies may do it sometimes, but it's definitely a pro-Scum action.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:22:13 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Sept 24, 2008 15:22:13 GMT -5
Also, in Peeker's defence, I'm pretty sure my own role is only here as a huge distraction (which it's succeeded admirably in being so far!) and I wouldn't put it past the mods to put something of the kind in Peeker's role too. Claiming Miller seems pretty forward unless he genuinely believes or has knowledge that he's going to be investigated.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:22:36 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Sept 24, 2008 15:22:36 GMT -5
I don't get this (and its a sentiment I don't really understand on Day 1, so kindly answer in general as well as specifically, if you would). What's real? Canon? I understand trying to figure out the game dynamics, but without a mass name claim, we're not going to know what/who a majority of the town are. I guess I just never understood what was "real" on Day 1. 95% of the time, there's nothing substantial to go on. It seems to me that we usually find that 5% with things that aren't "real", but perhaps I'm confused. Can you elaborate? You know what, this is a good point and I suppose that my phraseology is bad with that one. What I am looking for is more information. We got everything we were going to get from mole. I asked a few follow up questions, and then he full claimed. We more or less did the same thing to Idle, but we haven't discussed anything that puts multiple players on record as far as what ideas they favor. So we have options I guess. We can start pushing on the other people who are talking. Some of them are probably scum and what people say and do when those pressures are put on them will be usefull later. We can start putting pressure on the people not playing enough. Again, some of them are probably scum and what people say and do when etc. etc. We can sit back and do nothing and just let mole get lynched and not talk about anything else until that lynch is over. On another matter, I should explain, I play this game selfishly. I have said this before. I don't really know any other way to play. So I try to find players I can trust. I always like to know what side of the trust line I want to put Pleo on as early as possible because he is dangerous. So he is one of the people I like to test early. Your options all hold true in a general sense, so I'll keep pursuing that agenda for the purposes of this post. We can both agree the "sit back and do nothing" just requires scum to plant a seed, and the town will grow that into a full fledged bandwagon. But this pushing individual players for information that you describe... how is that fundamentally different than a simple mass claim. Granted, it is more thorough, takes longer, and the order is less than random, but I don't see those as fundamental differences. I mean, scum could simply participate in conversations without raising any ideas, without really contributing, so much as simply agreeing and disagreeing with relatively non controversial topics. Who takes who's sides and who votes for who to get who lynched is the best way to discern scum, IMHO, and I don't ever see that happening on a Day 1, hence my lack of understanding for your (general you) call to talk about real substance, when, as far as I'm concerned, there really isn't any on Day 1. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should all be talking about pee cakes and Ass-sicles all Day, but the ominous, "let's talk substance!" just seems rather empty to me.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:24:07 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Sept 24, 2008 15:24:07 GMT -5
I don't know what questions to ask Peeker, but perhaps someone can step in here. I've put out some questions to peekercpa, but have yet to receive a response: Also, is there any particular reason you claimed now? I didn't notice any pressure on you. Is it because you investigate as scum? Can you elaborate.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:25:57 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Sept 24, 2008 15:25:57 GMT -5
That doesn't mean he is Scum, but it sure makes it look like his reasons to not reveal before were a smokescreen to keep his name hidden. I am 100% dedicated to self-preservation here. However, I 1001% disagree with anybody who says this is "anti-town" in a game with PFKs. First of all, if the scum aren't targeting me, they're just as likely to be targeting a malicious PFK as a power role, assuming their numbers are roughly equal. Secondly, and I would emphasize this point to the hills, lynching me will hurt the town. You lose one townie's vote in case of a close tie, and by lynching me you also lose one opportunity to out a scum or malicious PFK. So in that respect, my wanting to NOT be lynched is extremely pro-town!
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Chucara
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:31:43 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Sept 24, 2008 15:31:43 GMT -5
You guys and your acronyms.. Anyone care to explain OMGUS?
Idle: I think claiming so early is suspect. I'm not voting for you, but I am questioning your motives for claiming. Claiming Doctor is a powerful move, but it's a two edged sword: You could be trying to lure out the real doctor, you could claim it to avoid a lynch. But you could also be telling the truth and seeking to leave the scum guessing, potentially wasting a night kill. Still, you can't be surprised that with such a claim, you'd be in someones spotlight.
To your advantage, I admit that you at least did a full roleclaim, and no seems to have claimed against you (which would perhaps also be a bad move). But isn't it possible that some other role or power could off you during the night without your protection working?
That being said, let's leave it at that. I doubt the vote will move to you, and we've already discussed your reasons excessively.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:32:16 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 24, 2008 15:32:16 GMT -5
The only thing I can think to ask FCOD is for him to try to explain why he would volunteer to eat the candy if he had no clue as to it's effects? Certainly. I don't feel like my powers are all that useful, so I thought I'd make myself a guinea pig. The way I see it, eating the candy will either do something good for me, something bad for me, or nothing (as far as we know). If it's something beneficial, great! We'll have a confirmed townie and we'll know what the candy does. If it does something bad for me, oh well, at least we'll have found scum/PFK, which would be worth it even if I am dead. If it does nothing, Molefan will be looking pretty scummy, as we can't trust the candy isn't part of his win condition (a la bufftabby the Ceiling Cat), but then we're not really any worse off than we were toDay. I think the potential benefits outweigh the risk of my death, given that I know what my powers are and how useful they are. Of course, an option that everyone else should consider is that both Molefan and I are scum and we're trying to pull one over on the town. Obviously I know that's not true, but I don't really have any way to prove that to the town other than my word. One thing I can put forth is that we don't know if the scum even had the opportunity to communicate yet. Did UATU ever answer that point? UATU: were the scum able to talk during Night One?[/b] The only problem that I'm having right now is trying to find someone else to lynch. Frankly, I can't. Peekercpa has put himself out there, but if his power is indeed to give immunity to the Legacy virus, I don't think I want to lynch him to find out. I tend to believe Idle's claim, and there really hasn't been much else going on toDay. --FCOD
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:33:41 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Sept 24, 2008 15:33:41 GMT -5
I'd explain it to ya, Chuc, but Oh My God, yoU Suck.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:36:39 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 24, 2008 15:36:39 GMT -5
I'd explain it to ya, Chuc, but Oh My God, yoU Suck. Heh heh. It usually means voting for someone just because they voted for you. OMGUS. --FCOD
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Chucara
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:39:53 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Sept 24, 2008 15:39:53 GMT -5
I'd explain it to ya, Chuc, but Oh My God, yoU Suck. Ah.. You kids and yer internet-talk.. A couple of quick rule/experience questions: Is it possible to vote no-lynch. What are your experiences doing that? How has molefan played previously? If molefan is a PFK with poisonous candy - isn't claiming an extremely bad move? What other motives could he have?
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:41:22 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Sept 24, 2008 15:41:22 GMT -5
That doesn't mean he is Scum, but it sure makes it look like his reasons to not reveal before were a smokescreen to keep his name hidden. I am 100% dedicated to self-preservation here. However, I 1001% disagree with anybody who says this is "anti-town" in a game with PFKs. First of all, if the scum aren't targeting me, they're just as likely to be targeting a malicious PFK as a power role, assuming their numbers are roughly equal. Secondly, and I would emphasize this point to the hills, lynching me will hurt the town. You lose one townie's vote in case of a close tie, and by lynching me you also lose one opportunity to out a scum or malicious PFK. So in that respect, my wanting to NOT be lynched is extremely pro-town! You're completely wrong here. The self-preservation action in your case was trying to hide your role name. You have a villainous name, and by hiding it, you were trying to reduce the chance that the Town would lynch you. That is both anti-Town (holding back information that could help us) and pro-Scum (avoiding the lynch). Given the powers you've told us you have, why would you be so concerned about your own survival? Add to that the fact that because your name is villainous, Scum are less likely to Night-kill you. Think like Scum: either the Town will lynch you later, or you're more likely to be a survivor instead of a Townie. Better targets elsewhere. If you hadn't been concerned about your own survival, you'd have revealed earlier. You keep talking about how lynching you will hurt the Town because you are a Townie. That will never convince anyone to change their vote. Townies don't know you're telling the truth, and those who do (the Scum) have no reason to change their vote. You'll have to convince us that it's too risky to lynch you, or that someone else will give us better odds.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:42:06 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 24, 2008 15:42:06 GMT -5
You guys and your acronyms.. Anyone care to explain OMGUS? Idle: I think claiming so early is suspect. I'm not voting for you, but I am questioning your motives for claiming. Claiming Doctor is a powerful move, but it's a two edged sword: You could be trying to lure out the real doctor, you could claim it to avoid a lynch. But you could also be telling the truth and seeking to leave the scum guessing, potentially wasting a night kill. Still, you can't be surprised that with such a claim, you'd be in someones spotlight. If I wanted to avoid a lynch I would have claimed it if I was in danger of being lynched. This has already all been rehashed, where were you? I claimed: 1. Because I wanted to have an easy game where I didn't have to worry about hiding anything and 2. As pointed out by many others, it's not always a bad thing..now the killing roles with have to play WIFOM Nightly. You're new but the whole "I'm suspicious of you but not voting for you" line is suspicious in itself, at least to me.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:45:38 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 24, 2008 15:45:38 GMT -5
Ah.. You kids and yer internet-talk.. A couple of quick rule/experience questions: Is it possible to vote no-lynch. What are your experiences doing that? How has molefan played previously? If molefan is a PFK with poisonous candy - isn't claiming an extremely bad move? What other motives could he have? It is possible to have a no-lynch in some games, but it's generally a terrible idea. The only thing the town has to go on is information and voting records, and if we don't lynch anyone we don't get any information. It's better to lynch a townie than lynch nobody on Day One, if you ask me. I don't have a good feel for Molefan's playing style, but yes if he is PFK, claiming would have been a bad idea, IMO. --FCOD
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:47:37 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Sept 24, 2008 15:47:37 GMT -5
The way I see it, eating the candy will either do something good for me, something bad for me, or nothing (as far as we know). If it's something beneficial, great! We'll have a confirmed townie and we'll know what the candy does. If it does something bad for me, oh well, at least we'll have found scum/PFK, which would be worth it even if I am dead. If it does nothing, Molefan will be looking pretty scummy, as we can't trust the candy isn't part of his win condition (a la bufftabby the Ceiling Cat), but then we're not really any worse off than we were toDay. This is the best argument to not lynch molefan. If there were anyone else I was especially suspicious of, I would seriously consider changing my vote. (Which may be peekercpa if he doesn't start answering questions soon.) Oh, another question for peekercpa: do your feathers cure or vaccinate against the Legacy virus? That is, do you remove the disease after infection, or does your feather prevent infection? Or, both?
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:55:42 GMT -5
Post by Rysto on Sept 24, 2008 15:55:42 GMT -5
Is it possible to vote no-lynch. What are your experiences doing that? No-lynching is nearly always a bad idea. The Town starts the game with a large numerical advantage but a large informational disadvantage. The Town wins by trading numbers for information, usually via the lynch. If the Town no-lynches, they start the next Day down another Townie but with no extra information. There are certain game states in which a no-lynch makes sense for the Town, but they're rare. In Apocalypse, Roosh made a bizarre claim Day Three. Basically, he claimed to be an Amnesiac. He said that he didn't know his own alignment or role, but that every Day he got 3 clues about both. One of the clues was supposedly true, one of the claims was supposedly false, and the last was "WIFOM"(wine in front of me). Roosh lasted until the dawn of the final Day of the game, despite the fact that his vote record was awful and his claim made less and less sense as time went by. molefan was in that game and after his death he expressed a lot of surprised at how Roosh managed to survive with such a bizarre claim. It's possible he decided to try something similar here. I'm not sure I believe it myself. But if molefan is anti-Town, I think that would be the most likely explanation for his behaviour.
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Chucara
Borogrove
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 15:56:22 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Sept 24, 2008 15:56:22 GMT -5
If I wanted to avoid a lynch I would have claimed it if I was in danger of being lynched. This has already all been rehashed, where were you? I claimed: 1. Because I wanted to have an easy game where I didn't have to worry about hiding anything and 2. As pointed out by many others, it's not always a bad thing..now the killing roles with have to play WIFOM Nightly. You're new but the whole "I'm suspicious of you but not voting for you" line is suspicious in itself, at least to me. I was right here.. I did a recap because you asked me to explain why I suspected you. 1. Well excuse me if I don't just believe you because you said that was your reasons. 2. As I posted in my reply that was also one of the things I considered. I was thinking aloud. (or whatever the written equivalent of that is) My reasons for adding you to that short list was also written in my post: Off all the people here, your actions has been the most bold in a group that is so far relatively anonymous. You even indicated yourself that people might find it suspicious.. Why are you wondering that people are now? Perhaps I'm using some terms that you use for something else.. By suspicious, I mean that while I don't currently think that you are anti-town, I will most certainly read your posts more thoroughly that some of the others. Again: I'm not voting for you because what little suspicion I have is greatly outweighed by risk of lynching a doctor. Also if you are indeed a doctor, I like the boldness of your strategy.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:00:24 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Sept 24, 2008 16:00:24 GMT -5
The only thing I can think to ask FCOD is for him to try to explain why he would volunteer to eat the candy if he had no clue as to it's effects? Certainly. I don't feel like my powers are all that useful, so I thought I'd make myself a guinea pig. The way I see it, eating the candy will either do something good for me, something bad for me, or nothing (as far as we know). If it's something beneficial, great! We'll have a confirmed townie and we'll know what the candy does. If it does something bad for me, oh well, at least we'll have found scum/PFK, which would be worth it even if I am dead. If it does nothing, Molefan will be looking pretty scummy, as we can't trust the candy isn't part of his win condition (a la bufftabby the Ceiling Cat), but then we're not really any worse off than we were toDay. I think the potential benefits outweigh the risk of my death, given that I know what my powers are and how useful they are. Of course, an option that everyone else should consider is that both Molefan and I are scum and we're trying to pull one over on the town. Obviously I know that's not true, but I don't really have any way to prove that to the town other than my word. One thing I can put forth is that we don't know if the scum even had the opportunity to communicate yet. Did UATU ever answer that point? UATU: were the scum able to talk during Night One?[/b] The only problem that I'm having right now is trying to find someone else to lynch. Frankly, I can't. Peekercpa has put himself out there, but if his power is indeed to give immunity to the Legacy virus, I don't think I want to lynch him to find out. I tend to believe Idle's claim, and there really hasn't been much else going on toDay. --FCOD[/quote] I'm not going to give you the candy, since two people have suggested that it might be a put-up job between us. I'd like the people who are most suspicious of me to nominate somebody to give the candy to.
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Merestil Haye
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[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:02:41 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 24, 2008 16:02:41 GMT -5
First of all, if the scum aren't targeting me, they're just as likely to be targeting a malicious PFK as a power role, assuming their numbers are roughly equal. So, how many PFKs do you think there are in this game? Let me remind you that there are no - that means zero - vanilla roles. Everyone has some sort of power (even if the power is "being a Mafiate.") Secondly, and I would emphasize this point to the hills, lynching me will hurt the town. You lose one townie's vote in case of a close tie, and by lynching me you also lose one opportunity to out a scum or malicious PFK. So in that respect, my wanting to NOT be lynched is extremely pro-town! No, it's not. Firstly, wanting to escape the lynch is a null tell, because no-one wants to be lynched. It is not, however, of equal importance to the possible factions in this game, for one of their faction to be lynched. From the Town point of view, lynching a scum or PFK is always prefereable to lynching town. In this situation, however, the strong likelihood is that if you escape the noose, then some other townsperson will get their neck stretched, and so (assuming for a moment that you are town) you have to evaluate whether it's better to go quietly and avoid hanging someone more important to your side. Sometimes the pro-town move is to go quietly into the night so that the pack don't kill someone more valuable. The smaller the faction the more important each individual player is. Your claimed powers do not inspire me with confidence that you are town. The biggest problem (imo) is that you claim you don't know what the candy does. In general, every time I've asked a Mod about the way my powers work, I've had an answer. I can't attest to the way Storyteller handles power roles, because I was a vanilla Colonist in Blade Runner. In NAFKat's Firefly game I didn't have many queries on my powers (but when it came to flavouring my role, they gave me wide latitude.) But, I'd expect you to know what your gifts do. That you claim you don't know is pinging my scumdar; and that feeling has got stronger as I write this. While I'm unlikely to vote you (absent a confession or irrefutible evidence of scummitude of one flavour or another) I don't find the lynch wagon suspicious.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:04:38 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Sept 24, 2008 16:04:38 GMT -5
You can give it to me if you'd like, I'm getting kind of curious of the gastardness, myself.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:10:22 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 24, 2008 16:10:22 GMT -5
Ok meta-gaming here. A lot of you guys know story pretty well from playing with him and making up games. I seem to recall from reading the Batman spoiler thread that he was pretty miffed that Dotchan was totally screwed over because she investigated as a PFK when she was actually an innocent survivor who would have won with town or scum. Would he have put a Miller in one of his games?
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:20:01 GMT -5
Post by Holy Moley! on Sept 24, 2008 16:20:01 GMT -5
I am 100% dedicated to self-preservation here. However, I 1001% disagree with anybody who says this is "anti-town" in a game with PFKs. First of all, if the scum aren't targeting me, they're just as likely to be targeting a malicious PFK as a power role, assuming their numbers are roughly equal. Secondly, and I would emphasize this point to the hills, lynching me will hurt the town. You lose one townie's vote in case of a close tie, and by lynching me you also lose one opportunity to out a scum or malicious PFK. So in that respect, my wanting to NOT be lynched is extremely pro-town! You're completely wrong here. The self-preservation action in your case was trying to hide your role name. You have a villainous name, and by hiding it, you were trying to reduce the chance that the Town would lynch you. That is both anti-Town (holding back information that could help us) and pro-Scum (avoiding the lynch). Given the powers you've told us you have, why would you be so concerned about your own survival? Add to that the fact that because your name is villainous, Scum are less likely to Night-kill you. Think like Scum: either the Town will lynch you later, or you're more likely to be a survivor instead of a Townie. Better targets elsewhere. If you hadn't been concerned about your own survival, you'd have revealed earlier. You keep talking about how lynching you will hurt the Town because you are a Townie. That will never convince anyone to change their vote. Townies don't know you're telling the truth, and those who do (the Scum) have no reason to change their vote. You'll have to convince us that it's too risky to lynch you, or that someone else will give us better odds. Wait wait wait... "those who do know I'm town?" How are the scum supposed to know that I'm town? I could be a malicious PFK as far as they're concerned. Hell, if I were scum I'd probably suspect it myself given my title claim (which BTW is why I didn't give that particular piece of information out early on.) Have you got any particular evidence that the scum have somebody onboard who is able to confirm my alignment?And to answer your points, the role title of "Arcade" suggests to me a malicious PFK, not a townie. In which case I'd have BOTH sides after me, instead of just one if I kept quiet. Once again, is there a single person here who'd not have done the same thing? Also, I know I'm town, therefore from my point of view my lynch is the absolute worst thing that can happen this evening, since there's an infinitely better chance that we'll get a scum or PFK no matter who else we lynch as long as it's not me. Question: what exactly is supposed to be the evidence against me? So far I've heard that: - People don't believe my role is genuine (it is, and you only have to wait one night to find that out), - People do believe my role is genuine but think it's PFK (which is demonstrably bullshit, why the hell would I roleclaim a malicious role when I don't even know how many investigators are out there or who might be able to contradict me, or whether the true nature of my role would be revealed later on by some game mechanic, etc? That's not even a WIFOM, it's so absurd.) - People think I've held back information (again, demonstrably false apart from my role title, which I'd not give out regardless of whether I was scum, town, PFK or big purple bunny, for obvious reasons), and - People think my role title is scummy (which is unfortunately true, and the reason I didn't give it out in the first place!) So apart from the fact that I'm Arcade, what evidence is there that I'm anything other than a townie whose only real role is to distract things with a dodgy power and role title?
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:20:30 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Sept 24, 2008 16:20:30 GMT -5
But this pushing individual players for information that you describe... how is that fundamentally different than a simple mass claim. Granted, it is more thorough, takes longer, and the order is less than random, but I don't see those as fundamental differences. I mean, scum could simply participate in conversations without raising any ideas, without really contributing, so much as simply agreeing and disagreeing with relatively non controversial topics. Well, you answer part of your question right there. The other part is that a mass claim is one way information, talking to players is two way information. Also, I am not really sure what we should be doing other than guessing at random if we don't do this. I always assumed it was a fundamental of the game. It is only recently (post Batman) that I realized not everyone assumes this. It kind of fliped my brain. See, this is the mindset that I never realized people had. I think that this sort of analysis is a tool, and a useful one, but that it gives an incompete picture, and frequently will point in incorrect directions. Also, it's less fun, but that might just be me.
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:21:53 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Sept 24, 2008 16:21:53 GMT -5
Ok meta-gaming here. A lot of you guys know story pretty well from playing with him and making up games. I seem to recall from reading the Batman spoiler thread that he was pretty miffed that Dotchan was totally screwed over because she investigated as a PFK when she was actually an innocent survivor who would have won with town or scum. Would he have put a Miller in one of his games? I don't think you can rule it out, not on those grounds. A Miller, despite investigating as scum, is still a Townsperson and will win with the Town. In the Batman game Dot was a Survivor - a player who could only win by survivng to the end of the game. Roosh and Dio distinguished (for their own purposes) between "Malicious PFK" who had to be killed for the Town to win, and "Non-Malicious PFK" who didn't. The trouble is that they didn't tell the players when PFKs of the latter stripe were killed; as a result the Town thought that all PFKs were malicious. As soon as Dot confessed to being PFK she was lynched because the Town thought she "had to be" malicious. Even though she was nothing of the sort. This actually pushed the game towards a Lynch or Lose status, because lynching Dotchan effectively counted as a mislynch.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:29:16 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 24, 2008 16:29:16 GMT -5
In the Batman game Dot was a Survivor - a player who could only win by survivng to the end of the game. Roosh and Dio distinguished (for their own purposes) between "Malicious PFK" who had to be killed for the Town to win, and "Non-Malicious PFK" who didn't. The trouble is that they didn't tell the players when PFKs of the latter stripe were killed; as a result the Town thought that all PFKs were malicious. In our defense, I think dot was the only non-malicious PFK in the game.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:29:49 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on Sept 24, 2008 16:29:49 GMT -5
Your claimed powers do not inspire me with confidence that you are town. The biggest problem (imo) is that you claim you don't know what the candy does. In general, every time I've asked a Mod about the way my powers work, I've had an answer. I can't attest to the way Storyteller handles power roles, because I was a vanilla Colonist in Blade Runner. In NAFKat's Firefly game I didn't have many queries on my powers (but when it came to flavouring my role, they gave me wide latitude.) But, I'd expect you to know what your gifts do. That you claim you don't know is pinging my scumdar; and that feeling has got stronger as I write this. Ok, so I saw you make this argument before and I feel that I should speak up. I have a role where I don't exactly know how my powers work on Day 1. It's a learn as I go type of power. I still think mole's power is freakin bizzare and doesn't fit the character, but there is precident for at least one other player in the game not quite knowing what their powers do.
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:30:09 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Sept 24, 2008 16:30:09 GMT -5
I'm bothered by Peekers claim.
I understand that he claimed only vague knowledge of the xmen universe, but it strikes me as very convenient. He was hinting at viruses and magic bags well before his official claim, testing the waters. Nobody bit. When he did claim, his claim immediately offered us salvation from a threat we didn't know existed and pre-empted any investigator accusation down the road. I don't see anybody considering (out loud) the possibility that either there is no virus, or his involvement is not as benign as he'd have us believe. I think it needs to be considered.
I may move my vote from Molefan to Peeker. I don't trust either of them farther than I can kick an anvil barefooted.
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Sept 24, 2008 16:31:45 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Sept 24, 2008 16:31:45 GMT -5
See, this is the mindset that I never realized people had. I think that this sort of analysis is a tool, and a useful one, but that it gives an incompete picture, and frequently will point in incorrect directions. Also, it's less fun, but that might just be me. Well, the part that makes it lead in correct directions, as well as making it fun, is to figure out who's leading (and why) and who's following (and why), and their motivations. Unless a particular game cracks and a strategy specific to that game/situation is developed, I almost feel like that's our only tool. Why, you ask? Scum can do and say whatever the hell they feel like it (especially on Day 1). Granted, later in the game things will stop making sense and fitting together if they are making patently false claims. Aside from claims, though, my question stands, "What is substance; what is real?" Apologies to anybody who's not digging the semi-out of game conversation I'm trying to go through here, but we all know NAF is "trying to get people to think like him", and (it seems to me) develop a method to playing the game that will give Town a greater chance of success. Of course, it's just like locksmithing or cyber hacking; when the town gets stronger, the mods will make the scum stronger to compensate. However, let's focus on the first step of that, and we can worry about the mods making it tough for us (general us, when we're playing as scum) later.
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