Death By Irony
FGM
The Former Mandate of Heaven/Current Gastard Night Mod
I'm my own mind-altering substance!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:06:57 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Jul 24, 2007 18:06:57 GMT -5
Hence, if a scum is deliberately lying and saying he is using random.org when he is not, he risks tipping his hand. But (and this is the paranoia in me speaking now) how can you tell someone is using random.org? (Obviously nobody's going to put random vote someone into L-1, but still.)
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:08:23 GMT -5
Post by capybara on Jul 24, 2007 18:08:23 GMT -5
Mmm. Bacon.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:10:10 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 18:10:10 GMT -5
Are we going to have a color scheme for FoS/Un-FoS, too? I believe the convention has been to use orange for FOSs, just like it's been to use blue for voting and red for unvoting.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:12:09 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Jul 24, 2007 18:12:09 GMT -5
Hence, if a scum is deliberately lying and saying he is using random.org when he is not, he risks tipping his hand. But (and this is the paranoia in me speaking now) how can you tell someone is using random.org? That's why I never use random.org. In the end, it's completely unverifiable. I either abstain from voting early off, or find a silly reason for what is essentially a random vote, like what I did with hockeymonkey. In the end, it's still random, and will probably change multiple times before the Day ends.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:12:40 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jul 24, 2007 18:12:40 GMT -5
Hi, avery-bady! (or how does that Simpson's dude say it?)
Just getting started over here. So far I've got nut-ing...
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:15:49 GMT -5
Post by JSexton on Jul 24, 2007 18:15:49 GMT -5
Hence, if a scum is deliberately lying and saying he is using random.org when he is not, he risks tipping his hand. But (and this is the paranoia in me speaking now) how can you tell someone is using random.org? (Obviously nobody's going to put random vote someone into L-1, but still.) What difference does it make? Are you worried that I actually have a reason to vote for you?
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:16:41 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 18:16:41 GMT -5
Hence, if a scum is deliberately lying and saying he is using random.org when he is not, he risks tipping his hand. But (and this is the paranoia in me speaking now) how can you tell someone is using random.org? (Obviously nobody's going to put random vote someone into L-1, but still.) That's precisely my whole point: you can't. Which is precisely why it would be foolish for scum to manipulate it and not make it a random vote because, he is tied to the votee such that information will be learned when he is lynched and shows up as scum if he was not voting randomly. Further, even if he IS trying to manipulate it, I've come to the realization, thanks to the lynching of SnakesCatLady in M3 that anything like the evidence that led to her death (the dead-man-walking-confessions of two scum) should be ignored precisely because it was crafted with manipulation of the town in mind. Instead, I believe that the tells we'd find from dead scum would be at a level far less obvious one way or the other.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:26:06 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jul 24, 2007 18:26:06 GMT -5
But (and this is the paranoia in me speaking now) how can you tell someone is using random.org? That's why I never use random.org. In the end, it's completely unverifiable. I either abstain from voting early off, or find a silly reason for what is essentially a random vote, like what I did with hockeymonkey. In the end, it's still random, and will probably change multiple times before the Day ends. Ow! I get it yellow is not a good color for text! :: Puts on ::
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Santo Rugger
Mome Rath
The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:29:28 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Jul 24, 2007 18:29:28 GMT -5
FoS 11. dotchan, Timestamp: 2007-07-25 00:27:30 IST. I agree that random voting on the first day is fruitless, but a FoS can't hurt.
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RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:30:52 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 18:30:52 GMT -5
What the...a vote on me already?
Since it takes thirteen to lynch...
vote Roosh
(will unvote as soon as I find a real suspect to put my vote on...hope my scumdar is properly calibrated...) Auggh! I just came in here and the same thing happened to me now... Most uncool Dotchan. Most uncool and kinda hypocritical. But since you said it's just temp. I'll let it fly. But that does put you on MY Fos list: To quote you: FOS everybody who claims random.org gave them their vote. How is that verifiable?
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:33:26 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 18:33:26 GMT -5
What the...a vote on me already?
Since it takes thirteen to lynch...
vote Roosh
(will unvote as soon as I find a real suspect to put my vote on...hope my scumdar is properly calibrated...) Auggh! I just came in here and the same thing happened to me now... Most uncool Dotchan. Most uncool and kinda hypocritical. But since you said it's just temp. I'll let it fly. But that does put you on MY Fos list: To quote you: FOS everybody who claims random.org gave them their vote. How is that verifiable? To be fair, she made no claim at all about the source of her vote. I'd imagine it was "random" in the since that she picked a name out of her head. I'd be a bit if she did actually use random.org.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:34:41 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Jul 24, 2007 18:34:41 GMT -5
What the...a vote on me already?
Since it takes thirteen to lynch...
vote Roosh
(will unvote as soon as I find a real suspect to put my vote on...hope my scumdar is properly calibrated...) Auggh! I just came in here and the same thing happened to me now... Most uncool Dotchan. Most uncool and kinda hypocritical. But since you said it's just temp. I'll let it fly. But that does put you on MY Fos list: To quote you: FOS everybody who claims random.org gave them their vote. How is that verifiable? Well, to his credit, Roosh, he was not claiming that he was voting for you using random.org, even though the vote for you was essentially random. In the end, though, I'm not sure what the difference is. I am worried about the two people using that reason in synch to find Dotchan scummy, though. It reeks of opportunism.
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Death By Irony
FGM
The Former Mandate of Heaven/Current Gastard Night Mod
I'm my own mind-altering substance!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:34:42 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Jul 24, 2007 18:34:42 GMT -5
Exactly. I just picked the thirteenth name since that's the number required to lynch.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:35:42 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Jul 24, 2007 18:35:42 GMT -5
aaaaaaaaaaaand I screwed up someone's gender already. Sorry, dotchan.
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RoOsh
FGM
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:36:41 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 18:36:41 GMT -5
Actually, I was going to forgive you Dotchan since you didn't do it in blue. But since Idle still counted it. So i'll FOS Dotchan back, but give the others a full FOSing... FOS JSexton Blaster Master drainbead
Actually more of that is towards JSexton, cuz you seem to know your stuff alot in previous games but your instant Random.org voting seems i dunno... crazy? Well. Not crazy as in ScumCrazy, but more crazy as in... not what i'd think of a JSexton to do.... :shrug: but i dunno much about these games, but i would think that you did.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:43:44 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 18:43:44 GMT -5
On another topic, while it's on my mind. I want to discuss the repercussions of the psychos and geniuses being able to strategize during the day, and everyone being able to strategize at night.
1. This DOES change some of the first day strategy, because in each of the previous games, the scum had not had a chance to strategize in the first game prior to the end of the first day.
2. I think this will allow scum a very powerful tool for pulling of much more intricate schemes because they'll be able to fully coordinate as it unfolds, which is at least part of the reason why I think scum have not tried anything truly dastardly in previous games.
3. I think this will VASTLY improve the value of the genius role. Because they can discuss tells and such at their leisure without worry of being manipulated. Further, if there are any less experienced players, they can get guidance. They can also maintain suspicions on players (including scum and pro-town power roles) openly with eachother which will probably make their voting block much more potent than in past games.
4. Like with the scum, the geniuses may actually be able to pull off a coordinated effort to attempt to trap scum.
Does anyone else have any thoughts?
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
The player formerly know as BLAM!
Now 34.788% less repellant to Sharks! :( [on:I WANT TO DIE!][of:I WANT TO LIVE!]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:50:52 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 18:50:52 GMT -5
Actually, I was going to forgive you Dotchan since you didn't do it in blue. But since Idle still counted it. So i'll FOS Dotchan back, but give the others a full FOSing... FOS JSexton Blaster Master drainbead
Actually more of that is towards JSexton, cuz you seem to know your stuff alot in previous games but your instant Random.org voting seems i dunno... crazy? Well. Not crazy as in ScumCrazy, but more crazy as in... not what i'd think of a JSexton to do.... :shrug: but i dunno much about these games, but i would think that you did. I want to point out that, from the infamous Day 2 trainwreck in M2, I've learned that a difference in strategy does not a scum make. FTR, I've supported random voting since M2, when I was a pro-town power role, in M3 when I was scum, and again in M4 when I was vanilla townie. Similarly, other players (like storyteller, IIRC) have generally opposed it, and he was the Godfather in M2, and vanilla in M4, and a monk in MV. IOW, it's a matter of play style, NOT of scumminess. If you disagree with my reasoning, point out where you think it is flawed, and I'll gladly address it. I hold no issue with FOSing/voting randomly in the early part of the first day, but yours is clearly not random, and yet you are following a dangerous train of thought in doing so.
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Death By Irony
FGM
The Former Mandate of Heaven/Current Gastard Night Mod
I'm my own mind-altering substance!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:53:23 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Jul 24, 2007 18:53:23 GMT -5
aaaaaaaaaaaand I screwed up someone's gender already. Sorry, dotchan. It's okay. That gender marker is hard to see anyway. I didn't even notice you addressed me as "he" until you pointed it out. And we can always say that you were using the pronoun as a generic "he" anyway.
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RoOsh
FGM
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:56:00 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 18:56:00 GMT -5
I always thought that random.org was one of the rules that led you (ie: anyone) to being killed right from the get go. I felt that that was kind of a taboo word around you people (You as in ie: Dopers) same with mentioning Mafiascum.net (which i've never visited).
So i don't actually know which person prefers/dislikes random.org, but i figured that most of the more "experienced" players on these (ie: doper) games HATE random.org. That's why i have my FOS on jsexton, because i consider him a very "experienced" player (i think from the WWgame or something, he had a very reassuring aura about him, like he knew what he was doing).
So his Random voting seemed to be contrary to what i figured that Dopers consider to be a good idea especially right from the outset.
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RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:56:35 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 18:56:35 GMT -5
Does that help clarify my thoughts, MB?
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RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:57:01 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 18:57:01 GMT -5
Ugh. I mean BM. Stupid White font and guessing your name....
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 18:59:23 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 24, 2007 18:59:23 GMT -5
Just call him Blam Blam Blam. (Yes, this is a fluff post. Deal with it. ;D )
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RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:02:35 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 19:02:35 GMT -5
And you could be BaconBaconBacon!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:06:08 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on Jul 24, 2007 19:06:08 GMT -5
Vote Kat
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:08:49 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 24, 2007 19:08:49 GMT -5
Random vote, or do you have an explanation?
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:09:15 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on Jul 24, 2007 19:09:15 GMT -5
Figured I'd beat ya to the punch,Kat.I won't be adding anymore tonight,just had a 14 hour day and I am exausted. Catcha all tomorrow.
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RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:09:24 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 19:09:24 GMT -5
This is all too crazy for me. *ducks down and cowers in fear*
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:15:11 GMT -5
Post by capybara on Jul 24, 2007 19:15:11 GMT -5
Blaster--that's a productive train of thought. I think the more thinking we can do before nightfall and the first lynch the better. The fact that scum can chat during the day makes me very uneasy-- it will be easier for them to keep their weaker players in check and do some micromanaging along the lines of the 'fake random distribution' on the Hispaniola (God, I hate Gaudere--what a great game he played). I can imagine also some very complicated bandwagon schemes. This could get interesting and vile. Now, the doctors are a separate bunch from the geniuses, right,unlike when the doctor is a mason or whatever? So none of the geniuses have any extra powers except that they know who each other are, which isn't a bad power-- the geniuses and the psychos start today with a bit more information than everyone else. The daytime chatting of geniuses could work in the town's favor if the geniuses can do the same kind of bandwagon manipulation as the psychoes. I can think of a few ways the geniuses could use some sort of micromanaging to effect interesting results. I like your point #4, Blaster. I hope there are a whole pile of geniuses in this town (and that they're actually bright players). There isn't any sort of 'pirate captain/ Godfather" role among the psychos, is there? Does that change the dynamic at all?
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:15:53 GMT -5
Post by capybara on Jul 24, 2007 19:15:53 GMT -5
Wow, fast posts. Mine was in response to BM's post #45.
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:16:54 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 24, 2007 19:16:54 GMT -5
Figured I'd beat ya to the punch,Kat.I won't be adding anymore tonight,just had a 14 hour day and I am exausted. Catcha all tomorrow. Ah. A pre-emptive revenge vote. Time for my traditional: Revenge votes as baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad!#nosignature#
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