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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:19:37 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jul 24, 2007 19:19:37 GMT -5
I always thought that random.org was one of the rules that led you (ie: anyone) to being killed right from the get go. I felt that that was kind of a taboo word around you people (You as in ie: Dopers) same with mentioning Mafiascum.net (which i've never visited). So i don't actually know which person prefers/dislikes random.org, but i figured that most of the more "experienced" players on these (ie: doper) games HATE random.org. (snip) Actually there are heated supporters of both sides of the argument. And it usually ('til now, that is) leads to a full-Day discussion of the strategy. I've seen Mafiascum.org mentioned from time to time but I don't think it has led anyone to even FOS another player. I haven't used it, but my guess is it could help a newbie player hone his/her skills.
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RoOsh
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:24:36 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 19:24:36 GMT -5
Yeah, I remember that full debate from M5... God it seemed so stupid... 14 pages of needlessness. I'd actually like to avoid that sort of stuff. Only because it's annoying to read and complicated. and I personally don't believe it's useful, but to each their own i suppose.
RETRACT FOS of all random.org voters.
I guess i'm actually going to have to do some thinking right now.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:28:59 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jul 24, 2007 19:28:59 GMT -5
dotchan (1) - JSexton Malacandra (1) - Blaster Master hockeymonkey (1) - drainbead Roosh (1) - dotchan kat (1) - Mad the Swine
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:31:39 GMT -5
Post by capybara on Jul 24, 2007 19:31:39 GMT -5
God it seemed so stupid... 14 pages of needlessness. I'd actually like to avoid that sort of stuff. Only because it's annoying to read and complicated. and I personally don't believe it's useful, but to each their own i suppose. However it IS information about the players-- at least they're talking and not lurking, and all information at the end of the day is data. Perhaps manipulated data, but. Sitting around thumbs in asses doesn't do much, and while this random shootout of crazed monkeys with blindfolds and guns in here is interesting it accomplishes only so much itself. And new players have yet to decide how they feel about it, so I suspect that we will go through the whole conversation again, but perhaps at the end of the day something interesting comes of it all?
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:51:07 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Jul 24, 2007 19:51:07 GMT -5
I'm a bit of a noob, but in my limited experience with these kind of games, Day 1 is generally a crapshoot. I've only seen one Day 1 scum hit, and it was in the first Werewolf game on the SDMB. We're all flying blind here. In the end, all we can do at first is random vote and discuss strategy, and see where things go from there. It's annoying, and the same issues get rehashed every game (with some added debates based on game-specific roles, of course), but it needs to happen for the townies to have any chance of nabbing scum. And even then, the odds are stacked against us, but the only way we can learn is by talking and voting.
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Blaster Master
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:52:06 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 19:52:06 GMT -5
I always thought that random.org was one of the rules that led you (ie: anyone) to being killed right from the get go. I felt that that was kind of a taboo word around you people (You as in ie: Dopers) same with mentioning Mafiascum.net (which i've never visited). So i don't actually know which person prefers/dislikes random.org, but i figured that most of the more "experienced" players on these (ie: doper) games HATE random.org. (snip) Actually there are heated supporters of both sides of the argument. And it usually ('til now, that is) leads to a full-Day discussion of the strategy. I've seen Mafiascum.org mentioned from time to time but I don't think it has led anyone to even FOS another player. I haven't used it, but my guess is it could help a newbie player hone his/her skills. FTR, I believe either MadTheSwine or FlyingCowOfDoom was FOSed in M4 for what was essentially relying too heavily on mafiascum. The problem is, any "established" set of tells becomes less and less useful as the experience of the group of players grows because any set of tells can either be avoided or outright exploited by either side turning the whole thing into a big WIFOM cluster... umm.. yeah. IME, the most consistent tells are things that are much more difficult to control, including slips, contradictions, posting/voting patterns, player associations, etc. Of course, this is where the daytime scum communication throws a wrench in the whole deal, because scum can very easily coordinate their voting/posting patterns to avoid the consequences of my Pseudo-Random Theory (which I discussed at length in M4, but can reitterate here as necessary). Similarly, if a scum makes a slip or contradiction, it can be caught much sooner and down-played much more effectively with their collective brainstorming. I think now more than ever, the mantra of "scum are at least as smart as we are" is something to keep in mind.
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Gir!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 19:56:57 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 24, 2007 19:56:57 GMT -5
1. This DOES change some of the first day strategy, because in each of the previous games, the scum had not had a chance to strategize in the first game prior to the end of the first day. Actually, WWII started at night, but Mafia didn't have the ability to talk strategy during the day. So, scum had a opportunity to discuss some things before Day One, but there was still no chance to coordinate while stuff was taking place during the Day.#nosignature#
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Blaster Master
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 20:02:01 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 20:02:01 GMT -5
1. This DOES change some of the first day strategy, because in each of the previous games, the scum had not had a chance to strategize in the first game prior to the end of the first day. Actually, WWII started at night, but Mafia didn't have the ability to talk strategy during the day. So, scum had a opportunity to discuss some things before Day One, but there was still no chance to coordinate while stuff was taking place during the Day. You're right, I can't believe that slipped my mind! Then again, you would remember. Still, even then, they could only talk general strategy and pick a target at random. As you correctly point out, scum in this game will be able to have dynamic strategies, especially since there's no need for any kind of special open communication for coordination.#nosignature#
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 20:04:16 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on Jul 24, 2007 20:04:16 GMT -5
Now that we're talking strategy, how do the "Karma" points work?
I mean, they could actually be a useful tool. Instead of just FOS'ing people, we could use them to "rate" people as we read their posts...
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RoOsh
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 20:06:53 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 20:06:53 GMT -5
Poor BM then.... So should we set all of them to zero? But it seems easily influenced by scum/geniuses/arseholes because we get 1 vote every hour. So every hour we could easily have a group of scum annoymously tamper with everyone's karma....
I think the Karma is just an extra, and I'm not going to let it influence my votes
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Death By Irony
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 20:25:06 GMT -5
Post by Death By Irony on Jul 24, 2007 20:25:06 GMT -5
By the way, I am banned from the internet at work (bah!) so on weekdays I'm not online until after 5:30 pm EST except for Tuesdays, when I have class. Weekends I like to sleep and play video games, so I'm generally not awake before noon.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 21:04:10 GMT -5
Post by Hal Briston on Jul 24, 2007 21:04:10 GMT -5
4. Like with the scum, the geniuses may actually be able to pull off a coordinated effort to attempt to trap scum. Does anyone else have any thoughts? My thought is that going into heavy discussion about this is a Very Bad Idea. If the Geniuses set traps for scum, then terrific...let 'em go at it. But calling attention to it beforehand can only make things harder. Let's let the Geniuses live up to their name and handle things on their own.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 21:13:03 GMT -5
Post by cowgirl on Jul 24, 2007 21:13:03 GMT -5
I am also surprised at JSexton's random vote off the bat. But that is based on my assumption that experienced players like he wouldn't do that. Which might be wrong. The first day always confuses me.
Is there some history between Kat and MadTheSwine that would spur such a vote? I haven't been following the games as closely as I should have.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 21:18:32 GMT -5
Post by Greedy Smurf on Jul 24, 2007 21:18:32 GMT -5
So I toddle off to do some RL work for a couple of hours, and I've got 2 pages to read. So, I'm not entirely sure what I should be posting at this stage. Skimming M-V over at the Dope is my total experience with the game, but I also want to avoid being seen as a lurker, as that seems to get people voted for. At least a stick-poking vote. I don't have much too add on a strategy type front, apart from agreeing with Blaster Master's assessment that the scum being able to coordinate during the day would seem to provide them with an increased ability to throw us off their scent and to more actively manipulate the vote, as they are now able to react to unexpected twists and turns during the day.
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Santo Rugger
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 21:39:53 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Jul 24, 2007 21:39:53 GMT -5
bacon bacon bacon... It kinda has a certain ring to it.
I see you changed it already? What gives?
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Gir!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 21:52:34 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 24, 2007 21:52:34 GMT -5
*blinks in confusion*
I did?
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Santo Rugger
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 21:59:42 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Jul 24, 2007 21:59:42 GMT -5
Odd. It's not in reply 67?
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Gir!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:01:43 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 24, 2007 22:01:43 GMT -5
If you use the regular reply page, instead of the Quick Reply box, there's a "don't show signature" checkbox.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:04:21 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jul 24, 2007 22:04:21 GMT -5
She might have clicked the box to shut it off...
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Hockey Monkey!
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:05:08 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jul 24, 2007 22:05:08 GMT -5
Kat, I turned my show sigs function back on. I'm waiting for my bacon bacon bacon too.
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Santo Rugger
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:13:52 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Jul 24, 2007 22:13:52 GMT -5
I thought you were just embarrassed. Although, kat bacon does sound kinda yummy... mmm, with turkey jerky. Yeah baby! Oh, and corn.
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Santo Rugger
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:16:24 GMT -5
Post by Santo Rugger on Jul 24, 2007 22:16:24 GMT -5
Oh, and hockey, I love the "Open the airlocks and jettison the penguins!" Good dream, eh?
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Hockey Monkey!
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:21:01 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jul 24, 2007 22:21:01 GMT -5
Oh, and hockey, I love the "Open the airlocks and jettison the penguins!" Good dream, eh? Dream? Oh yeah, dream. Right. ;D (I have no idea what it meant, or why...but I think it's funny as hell.)
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Gir!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:24:13 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 24, 2007 22:24:13 GMT -5
I still think you should photoshop a penguin into that avatar.
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Blaster Master
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:26:24 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 22:26:24 GMT -5
4. Like with the scum, the geniuses may actually be able to pull off a coordinated effort to attempt to trap scum. Does anyone else have any thoughts? My thought is that going into heavy discussion about this is a Very Bad Idea. If the Geniuses set traps for scum, then terrific...let 'em go at it. But calling attention to it beforehand can only make things harder. Let's let the Geniuses live up to their name and handle things on their own. You've got me wrong Hal. I'm not trying to discuss what the geniuses should and should not do. What I AM trying to do is get discussion about how the daytime collaboration affects the game. I mention the geniuses for two reasons: one, it's never been done before that they can collaborate, muchless during the day, and two, their method of collaboration is identical to that of the scum. Thus, we can't really discuss the repercussions of the scum being able to collaborate during the day without some backlash on the geniuses. IMO, it's a worth while because, as I said in M4, anything a single one of us can figure out, surely a collective mind of the scum and/or geniuses can also figure out. However, by NOT talking about it, it leaves everyone who ISN'T scum or a genius semi-guessing about what's going on. Further, considering the collaboration, I think the geniuses will be able to discuss what their input is and appropriately disperse the information in a manor that leaves nothing to trace back. Basically, because this is a new element to the game, I want to have a general feel for what it means. I don't want to discuss genius strategy, or try to get them to collaborate with anyone, or anything. What I want to discuss is how this will affect scum behavior... obviously, at least some of the tells we're used to seeing will disappear, but surely, new ones will replace them, no?
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:42:13 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on Jul 24, 2007 22:42:13 GMT -5
Well, see you all tomorrow. I also have to get caught up with Mafia V as I've neglected it a bit the last half of this day due to getting this one started. : /
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Blaster Master
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:44:27 GMT -5
Post by Blaster Master on Jul 24, 2007 22:44:27 GMT -5
Well, see you all tomorrow. I also have to get caught up with Mafia V as I've neglected it a bit the last half of this day due to getting this one started. : / Bah! I need to post a vote count. Fortunately, today has been very slow in Mafia V, so it's allowed me to spend some of the time I'd usually be over there on here.
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Gir!
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 22:45:30 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Jul 24, 2007 22:45:30 GMT -5
Well, I'm running on short sleep right now, so I can't contribute much to that discussion tonight, BlaM, but I'm currently giggling inanely over the thought of a Psychoscum running to the scum board every few minutes asking "What should I say to that?"
I've lost my mind.
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 23:22:30 GMT -5
Post by nesta on Jul 24, 2007 23:22:30 GMT -5
I am also surprised at JSexton's random vote off the bat. But that is based on my assumption that experienced players like he wouldn't do that. Which might be wrong. The first day always confuses me. I'm against random votes in general, even on the first day, but in my limited experience townies are as likely to do it as scum. I do think random votes benefit the scum more than the town, but it isn't necessarily a scum tell. I don't think it's worth debating random votes yet again because it tends to work itself out rather quickly once there are posts to base real votes on, even if they are tenuous for the first Day or two. In past games the debate has usually come down to people who feel it's a good way to get things started, and people who think a meaningless vote is pointless and confuses the voting record. Just different play styles I suppose. #nosignature#
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RoOsh
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Day One
Jul 24, 2007 23:32:41 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jul 24, 2007 23:32:41 GMT -5
Okay So i decided to try this whole random.org number thingie. And So i went and i got a # between 1 and 19. And it was 18! And that's my fav. number too! i felt this would be a great start for testing this whole random vote thing. So i went back to these boards and looked up the 18th player so i can happily vote them.... ...and to my dismay... the 18th person in here is JSexton. And If i posted a vote for JSexton and said it was a "random" vote, how many of y'all (I'm from the South. It's You as in All of us. Not me from you) would actually believe that my vote was random? If i was you and you was me, I'd feel leery of it. Especially after the FOSing i gave him earlier. So I've concluded that I just don't like this whole Random.org business. Because reasonings for doing everything can be applied to every sort of behavior (on the other hand I see how talking can make it more helpful- as if i hadn't talked then i could randomly vote for Jsexton and be pleased as a peach about it. But now thanks to the talking, my vote seems icky to me. But then again, I DO find JSexton a lil' bit suspicious. But because he hadn't talked about his reasons except for "random.org" i have nothing really to accuse him of or reasonings for his vote. So... I'm just gonna keep my Finger of Suspicion on you JSexton.... But we've got time to see what's happening. You discovered more stuff yet from your random vote? ( )
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