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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 22, 2007 12:37:42 GMT -5
So, here we go. I began writing this monstrosity as an indictment of Blaster Master, and so much of what follows focuses on him. However, as I reread I realize that some of it applies to diggitcamara, as well. I will have to go back and look at more of diggit’s specific stuff.
So, here are my points. I will arrange them in helpful numbered list format, for ease of use.
1. The Curious Absence of Suspicion: Has anyone noticed that, apart from a silly vote from drainbead very early on Day 1, no one has ever voted for Blaster Master? (Apart from today’s votes, no one has ever voted for diggit either). Apart from one mild FoS to be discussed presently, no one has smudged, smeared, or dinged him. I find this extremely curious. From a scum standpoint, trusted townies are a liability, if they’re really townies. As scum you want to spread the wealth, suspicion-wise, to increase the chances that any given lynch will hit a townie. Now, of course, you let the townies do as much of the dirty smudging work as you can, but you do not want a virtual confirmed townie out there. And for all intents and purposes - for all the attention he’s gotten - that’s what Blaster Master has been.
Put more simply: if Blaster is town, why have the scum smudged so many others but never him? Particularly given that he’s intelligent, experienced, and clever, why would they allow him to hang around utterly unmolested for the entire game?
2. The Curious Absence of Suspicion, Part the Second: Quick - what is your impression of Blaster Master as a player? Prolific, aggressive, dogged enough in pursuit of his own theories to generate considerable activity? Me, too. Well, in this game, Blaster Master has placed a total of six votes.
One early and meaningless vote for Malacandra / NAF, eventually unvoted One vote for drainbead - more to come on this One vote for MadtheSwine One runoff vote for JSexton Another vote for MadtheSwine One vote, today, for dotchan
Observations: Every single one of Blaster Master’s votes has been directed against a player who was drawing significant suspicion by the time he voted - drainbead who already had three votes, Swine who is, basically, always suspected, JSexton who was in a runoff, and dotchan, today’s leading suspect. He was the fourth player to join the JSexton wagon during that runoff, in case you were wondering. Here we have a player following the tide, making low impact votes. Where is the hypothesizing, the analyzing, the careful examination of each player? Not there. Blaster Master has been chasing the already-chased, all game long.
3. The Passion of the Drainbead, Redux: Blaster Master’s was the fourth vote for drainbead, the one that sent her sliding toward her eventual lynch. That vote happened at 3:20PM. In his voting post, Blaster Master was careful to leave his options open:
Forty minutes later, the drainbead made her last post, then disappeared and stopped defending herself. I tentatively hypothesize that Blaster joined her wagon hoping to find a reason to jump off - thus drain’s last post was still an active defense. Almost immediately, the secondary target began to be Malacandra. Blaster was suddenly placed in a bind - jumping from drain to Mal would serve no purpose, but jumping from drain to Greedy would look hugely scummy once the latter died. And Blaster Master needs to survive, to earn trust. But the best option - let drainbead stop defending herself and die, leaving Blaster as the voter who pushed the lynch - was open.
Notice - in spite of the hesitancy with which he placed his vote, Blaster Master never wavered nor discussed alternate possibilities after 4:00PM on the day drain vanished. In fact, after drain stopped defending herself, Blaster stopped posting altogether for that Day.
Now, does that sound like a townie who placed a vote he was explicitly unsure of? Or a scum who initially wanted a way to escape his vote but eventually decided he wanted to be tied to it, and wanted it to count?
And by the way - check out this quote from Day 4:
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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 22, 2007 12:45:20 GMT -5
Crap. I failed to close one of my quote tags. In the second quote box above, the first and last blocks of text are quotes from Blaster and NAF, respectively; the rest, including the first part of my point #4, is from em and shouldn't be in quote box.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 22, 2007 12:46:08 GMT -5
Crap. I failed to close one of my quote tags. In the second quote box above, the first and last blocks of text are quotes from Blaster and NAF, respectively; the rest, including the first part of my point #4, is from em and shouldn't be in quote box. The rest is from me[/i.] Not em. I don't know anyone named em.
I think it's awesome that I achieved "fruitcake" status by posting that monstrosity.
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Post by capybara on Aug 22, 2007 13:13:46 GMT -5
Not much time, but the specific cases of MHaye and such aside for a moment, Story, how do you address the problem of how similarly a player could characterize your own game play this time? You haven't been AS in the shadows as Blaster but you haven't come under any substantial attack or taken any really difficult positions until now.
I ask because I am quite certain that there is one overlooked scum player on the early Drain wagon; I've been working with the notion that it's Mad because of his play style and such, but I also suspected him in M4-- scumtastic, and turned out to be a mason or something. Since he's getting more and more out int he open I start to worry that it's someone in a more Gadarene role-- someone lying low. As you say, the Survivor. So Blaster or you has been coming to mind more and more. If you apply your Curious Absence factors to yourself. . .
Thoughts on this?
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 22, 2007 13:24:27 GMT -5
Story, right now all I have to add is a quick correction -
I did FoS BlasterMaster over the Chia Bingo Master Fiasco - see <a href=http://psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=asylumlane&action=display&thread=1187215009&page=4#1187303635>here</a>. I also was somewhat suspicious of BM when mhaye first claimed; the Chia Bingo Master role sounded so improbable that I immediately jumped to the "there's no way this can be true" conclusion, so I wondered if mhaye was trying to save BM or make him look scummier.
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 22, 2007 13:26:24 GMT -5
*edit by way of post* D'oh, forgot to use BBS code. And also preview. (Note to self - the preview button is your friend.) try this on for size
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 22, 2007 14:00:25 GMT -5
This might kinda sound dumb and all.... But in the Mhaye debacle, BlasterMaster being the most vocal critic and all... Couldn't that have been because not only would he have to believe Mhaye's claim, but then (and here's the kicker)
He'd have to DIE[ for his belief in Mhaye's claim? So its not just like the rest of us, where he can say yes or no to whether or not he believes Mhaye. His neck is ON the chopping block, so if he's town or a power role and does NOT believe Mhaye's claim 100%, then... wouldn't anyone be that vocal about dying?
What i'm surprised about is how many people seem to "believe" Mhaye's claims NOW. If it was me that day, I'd totally be in disbelief about such a role, but it seems all i hear now is how people are unwilling to die for Mhaye, or people who didn't support the role claim are the scum.
But i still feel that TOWNies AND SCUM could have both been in a total "WTF" moment there, I'm sure there's some scum that totally felt like maybe Mhaye was pulling a secret role outta his arse or something. So we shouldn't just assume that defending Mhaye is Pro-town, and suspicious is anti-town.
Just my two cents.
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 22, 2007 14:29:13 GMT -5
But a Townie "WTF" is different from a Scummy "WTF".
A townie reads mhaye's role and thinks: "No way that can be true, this has to be some kind of scum gambit!" or "This is intruiging, let's take it and run with it - if mhaye proves false we an always lynch on the next Day."
A scum reads mhaye role and thinks: "Woah, did mhaye just pave the way for a free townie kill?" or "Crap, if this IS true this is bad bad BAD for our side."
...or some humours third option that I haven't considered.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 22, 2007 15:30:43 GMT -5
Not much time, but the specific cases of MHaye and such aside for a moment, Story, how do you address the problem of how similarly a player could characterize your own game play this time? You haven't been AS in the shadows as Blaster but you haven't come under any substantial attack or taken any really difficult positions until now. I don't have much time, either - leaving for auditions and won't be in until late tonight. But I want to say, in answer to the last statement: really?Day One I made the first vote on drainbead and was the first to develop Mad's incredibly tiny smudge into a full-fledged case. That was either the very first or near to the first "real" vote of the whole game, which is a pretty "difficult" position as it were. Day Two I led off with a vote for Roosh which drew a bit of suspicion in my direction and earned me a vote or possibly two (I don't have a lot of time, so I'm relying on memory here). That was unquestionably on my own initiative, and moving in a different direction from the rest of the town. I ended that Day with a vote for MadtheSwine, admittedly not my most original moment. Day Three, I sucked all around. I simply wasn't able to find time to access the game, and by the time I was, it had already come down to the big JSexton / Mal showdown, and all of the evidence had already been pretty well sifted. I made the choice I made - I voted for JSexton. Then I opposed mhaye - I thought he was lying and have said so since it happened. Day Four I tried a bunch of avenues, all my own. I led off with a case and vote against nesta, which given how it turned out was a pretty "difficult" position. I had developed a case against pygmy rugger, and after nesta's claim went after him. Later I withdrew both votes, and chose NAF[/b} over dotchan for lynching during the run-off.
And then there's the big honking limb on which I am presently perched.
I don't intend any of the above to serve as evidence that I am (or am not) town - just that I have not played conservatively. I have tried to just say things as I think them and vote according to my strongest suspicions, whether they are in line with prevailing ideas (MadtheSwine, Mal/NAF, JSexton), or whether they represent positions outside of the popular (drainbead, Roosh, nesta, and now Blaster).
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Aug 22, 2007 16:45:06 GMT -5
Applying what story just typed out to M4, I was actually planning to be "The Survivor" of our bunch...I didn't really want to do the false Monk claiming and was against it.
In the end, though, I turned myself from the Survivor (which I think I had a good chance of being in M5), into the Active Scum.
diggitcamera (2) - Roosh, capybara dotchan (2) - Blaster Master, diggitcamara Blaster Master (1) - storyteller0910
Less than 22 hours to go.
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Post by capybara on Aug 22, 2007 16:59:23 GMT -5
I don't have much time, either - leaving for auditions and won't be in until late tonight. But I want to say, in answer to the last statement: really?[snip] I don't intend any of the above to serve as evidence that I am (or am not) town - just that I have not played conservatively. snip Ok, and good answer. It may just be that you haven't done anything that seemed to ME to be insane (unlike some other poster's whose ever post makes me think "what?"). As I said, you haven't been as invisible as Blaster, who certainly wasn't invisible last game. But I think Roosh is right in a sort of obvious way at least on one point: of COURSE Blaster was WTF about MHaye's claim-- Blaster was the one who's life was suddenly on the line for no apparent fault of his own, town or scum. But otherwise I think you have an interesting hunch. Hard to back up with cold data, but interesting idea.
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 22, 2007 17:13:02 GMT -5
What i'm surprised about is how many people seem to "believe" Mhaye's claims NOW. If it was me that day, I'd totally be in disbelief about such a role, but it seems all i hear now is how people are unwilling to die for Mhaye, or people who didn't support the role claim are the scum. Well of course we'd believe mhaye's claim NOW, it's been mod-confirmed. So of course it's hard to not look back at the Chia Bingo Master Fiasco with Glasses of Hindsight on. Anyway, my little brother is harassing me about getting the computer back, so I'm going to do other stuff. I'll try to get on later tonight or early tomorrow to drop my vote.
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Post by Santo Rugger on Aug 22, 2007 17:20:15 GMT -5
<snip> Well of course we'd believe mhaye's claim NOW, it's been mod-confirmed. So of course it's hard to not look back at the Chia Bingo Master Fiasco with Glasses of Hindsight on.<snip> Roosh, correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted this to mean we shouldn't lambblast (what's the word I'm looking for there?) people who didn't believe MHaye's claim -at the time-, even though we believe it -now-.
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Post by Mad The Swine on Aug 22, 2007 18:36:25 GMT -5
I have been here...outta town and trying to keep up at the library.
I think I should be home tomorrow but if not...for now I gotta vote Dotchan.
I am actually undecided on this....but I will tell you this much,I do not want to be on the losing team that has a scum using "the other two scum" line as well as maybe admitting to visiting the scum boards. It would be embarassing.
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 22, 2007 18:43:06 GMT -5
<snip> Well of course we'd believe mhaye's claim NOW, it's been mod-confirmed. So of course it's hard to not look back at the Chia Bingo Master Fiasco with Glasses of Hindsight on.<snip> Roosh, correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted this to mean we shouldn't lambblast (what's the word I'm looking for there?) people who didn't believe MHaye's claim -at the time-, even though we believe it -now-. I think mhays role claim is bunk. Ok. Shouldn't take too long. Yeah, "shouldn't take too long" to figure out what bingo board would best benefit the scum, and influence the town's votes during the day. I'm not buying it for a second. So how do you interpret your own post there?
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 22, 2007 19:08:53 GMT -5
(think out loud mode) So, what now?
1) Say nothing? Oh, that must be a scumtell because I don't have an adequate defense.
2) Declare my innocence in giant size 24 blinking text? Oh, that must be a scumtell, too!
3) Hi, Opal!
4) Point out that lynching me is akin to shooting fish in a barrel and there's bigger fish to fry? Oh, that's also a scumtell because I'm smudging the other players.
MadtheSwine, if you are town, your actions make it easy for the scum to piggyback (pun intended) on your votes and drive bandgwagons. If, on the other hand, you are scum using your usual playstyle as cover...
Well, I want to find out for sure. Vote MadtheSwine
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 22, 2007 19:23:11 GMT -5
*Smudging Ahead* For MetaGaming Reasons, I would just like to take the time to say that I really don't believe that Dotchan is a newbie anymore.
/Smudge.
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 22, 2007 19:27:00 GMT -5
<snip> Well of course we'd believe mhaye's claim NOW, it's been mod-confirmed. So of course it's hard to not look back at the Chia Bingo Master Fiasco with Glasses of Hindsight on.<snip> Roosh, correct me if I'm wrong, but I interpreted this to mean we shouldn't lambblast (what's the word I'm looking for there?) people who didn't believe MHaye's claim -at the time-, even though we believe it -now-. Are you asking me my thoughts on Dotchan's post? I'm not sure what she's going at with her thing. It's really just inconsistencies. I could see it as protecting a player, or i could see it as not. I admit my views on Dotchan are biased, and I'm curious as to you asking me about her posts. Because i do admit i tend to think the more evil when i see her posts. Which is one reason i'm not voting for Dotchan. I don't believe I can judge her fairly, and I want to see if others have an argument there, or if I'd just been making all of this up on my own, and perhaps being manipulated into thinking Dotchan is guilty all along. your question, perplexes me Pygmy. Shouldn't you be asking Dotchan instead?
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Post by nesta on Aug 22, 2007 19:33:49 GMT -5
Roosh, could you elaborate on that? I don't think dotchan is new to reading these games but I also don't get the feeling that she's played in many (or any) before. Do you think otherwise? I point this out because reading and actually participating in these games are very different.
Now, I'm not sure this really matters, but I'm just curious why you don't think she's a newbie. In the end I think she would actually seem more scummy if she was completely new to the game since the slips that she did or didn't make are so basic.
dotchan, care to clear up your past experience?
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 22, 2007 19:37:38 GMT -5
Roosh, could you elaborate on that? I don't think dotchan is new to reading these games but I also don't get the feeling that she's played in many (or any) before. Do you think otherwise? I point this out because reading and actually participating in these games are very different. Now, I'm not sure this really matters, but I'm just curious why you don't think she's a newbie. In the end I think she would actually seem more scummy if she was completely new to the game since the slips that she did or didn't make are so basic. dotchan, care to clear up your past experience? I played (and ran) a couple of face-to-face games, once upon a time. Somewhere around the same time as Day One, I played in a 7-player game as town and got lynched for my distracting shininess (sigh). I've tried to read through as many games as I could to help me gain some knowledge after that.
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 22, 2007 19:50:37 GMT -5
:nod: I'm glad dotchan spot up for herself. But before that smudging of mine (it was meant to be something small, and shouldnt be used as a case against her or anything), but before that my impression of dotchan was that she'd never played before and had maybe just read 2-3 of the last few games. Ie: she was just a doper curious to see what Mafia would be like, never having played it. But she'd obviously done her homework somewhat, i think, mostly because of her comment from the "Game Mechanics thread" Where she mentions the "Flying Pumpkin that Shoots Lasers Out of Its Ass" That sounded really familiar to me, because I've been helping a friend of mine design his own game as of late, and then i remembered where I'd seen it: www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=The_Flying_Pumpkin_That_Shoots_Laser_Beams_Out_Of_Its_AssSo what's it mean? Absolutely Nothing.Dotchan, as you pointed out Nesta, could have done her homework, that's all. It's a rather random role, but :shrug: that's all it was. But it made me realize that I shouldn't be thinking that Dotchan is a complete newbie. She's done her homework And as she's pointed out, she's even been the head of a few games. :shrug:
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Post by Death By Irony on Aug 22, 2007 19:53:35 GMT -5
And as she's pointed out, she's even been the head of a few games. :shrug: It was just to pass the time at a party, though. We pretty much had no idea what we were doing. (IIRC, it was the most basic setup - Cop, Doctor, Scum, and Vanilla.) I ended up being the narrator a couple of times because I came up with the most interesting color. (My Nightkill descriptions tended to be quite gruesome, whereas most of the other narrators just said: "So-and-so died last night.")
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Post by Hal Briston on Aug 22, 2007 20:16:15 GMT -5
lambblast (what's the word I'm looking for there?) "Lambaste". And the first ones to make an effing comment about me being the one to answer that might just find that I've "accidentally" revealed your role on the spreadsheet.
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Post by capybara on Aug 22, 2007 20:19:42 GMT -5
lambblast (what's the word I'm looking for there?) "Lambaste". And the first ones to make an effing comment about me being the one to answer that might just find that I've "accidentally" revealed your role on the spreadsheet. OMG Hal this made me laugh my ASS off. Improved my evening. I'm still laughing. With you, not at you.
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Post by nesta on Aug 22, 2007 20:19:50 GMT -5
Thanks for clearing that up dotchan and Roosh. I agree that it means very little. I was just curious what meta-game reason Roosh had.
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Post by nesta on Aug 22, 2007 20:52:36 GMT -5
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Aug 22, 2007 23:51:44 GMT -5
dotchan (3) - Blaster Master, diggitcamara. Mad the Swine diggitcamera (2) - Roosh, capybara Blaster Master (1) - storyteller0910 Mad the Swine (1) - dotchan
SEVEN of NINE players have voted.
Just remember, Day ends tomorrow at NOON my time. (PST) That's in about 14 hours.
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Post by nesta on Aug 23, 2007 0:39:10 GMT -5
I've been suspicious of pygmy since Day 1 with his odd safe vote for Hal. Since then he's remained near the top of my suspicion list and hasn't done anything to make me change my mind. Most of pygmy's posts on Day 1 were fluff. Other than voting for Hal there is very little content. First, in post 1.92 he FOSes Hal: <snip> The only other voting reasons I can think of are voting based on roles from previous games (very bad idea), or voting based on how obnoxious the color scheme is on a person's name (I could be talked into it). And on preview -- cripes...I get one phone call in the middle of my post and that "four posts old" is now "14 posts old"... FoS Hal Briston, for having two horrible voting reasons and using that newfangled crazy math. The strange part here is that this quote seems very out of context. The post he quotes is post 1.15, where Hal is talking with Blaster about random votes. Hal's post isn't advocating voting based on these reasons at all, but just discussing random and pseudo-random votes. This earns him an FOS from pygmy? In post 1.320, three days later, he votes for Hal: <snip> Greedy, my truly hope is that you're town, and that you don't get lynched today...no fun to have your first game experience be one of dying on Day One. However, what I hope for and what I believe are two different things. Vote Greedy Smurf. Why, Hal, would you vote for somebody who you thought was town? This is exacty the way I voted for people who I knew were town in M2, when I knew they were town, because I was scum. It is a way of putting in a vote for somebody when the votes start piling on, to slip in as part of the bandwagon, while still leaving yourself an out when they die and are revealed as citizens. Call it meta-gaming if you will, but that's how I played it, and at that time, in my mind, it was perfectly innocuous. I'd be dollars to donuts you thought the same thing when you made that post. Vote Hal Briston The day is very close to ending, but I feel strongly enough about this that I will try to develop my case on the subject toMorrow. This is another quoting of Hal where pygmy seems to interpret it completely differently than what the post actually says. Hal's post that he quoted was 1.257. Please read that post and compare this to what pygmy is saying it means. In post 1.328 pygmy replies to capy about voting for Hal for something he didn't do: But that's, like, exactly not what he said. Your brain skipped his last sentence. He HOPES Smurf's town, but doesn't believe that that is the case. No, my brain read that last sentence. To me, it looks like a veiled attempt to distance himself from his vote. A very thinly veiled attempt. That's it as far as voting and FOSing on Day 1. An early FOS for Hal for something he didn't say, and then a vote for him for something else he didn't say. At the time of his vote the votecount was: drainbead (6) - storyteller0910, Roosh, Mad The Swine, Blaster Master, GreedySmurf, dnooman Malacandra (5) - hockeymonkey, drainbead, cowgirl, mhaye, capybara GreedySmurf (3) - JSexton, Hal Briston, DiggitCamera dnooman (1) - Malacandra Mhaye (1) - kat Something that really strikes me as odd is at no point during Day 1 did pygmy even acknowledge that there were a number of bandwagons that the rest of the town was trying to decide between. In fact, pygmy never even mentions drainbead, Mal, or Greedy at all during Day 1. Instead he casts about the safest vote possible with very little to back it up. This doesn't strike me as town trying to ferret out scum, but of scum trying to stay below the radar on Day 1 since the two leading wagons were for other scum. During Night 1 talk turns to what we should be talking about and how we can proceed based on whom the scum kills. Something that stood out to me was pygmy's take on interpreting night-kills. In post N1.144 he says: (snip) Which is why I don't believe it's advantageous for us to start talking about what we want to do in the Morning until we see who didn't wake up. A discussion concerning who died, and more importantly, why they were chosen, is our most powerful weapon towards rooting out the scum Tomorrow. [italics added] After hockey turns up dead pygmy makes good on trying to analyze why she was killed and says this in post 2.15: and just reading over the last 25 or so of Hockey's posts seems to show that she had posted the fact that she was keeping a detailed list of voting habits, which she showed to us all. And during day one, she was very anti-Malacandra instead of joining the Dnoowagon or the Drainwagon (though she did agree that Drainbead was a scummy looking suspect, she felt more inclined to go after Malacandra).... And for that. Malacandra say hello to my FOS. FOS play nice with MalacandraWIFOM if you will, but the crazies could have been trying to frame him. I wonder if on the scum boards they had talked about the fact that killing hockey would implicate Mal, and pygmy was ready to analyze her death by trying to WIFOM her suspicions of Mal away. Talk again turns to whether analyzing deaths is worthwhile. First dotchan chimes in and says that analyzing deaths isn’t useful in post 2.21, and pygmy replies in post 2.22: <snip> Analyzing deaths doesn't seem all that useful to me...it's not like we can read the psycho's minds. (And it almost seems like a scummy thing to do, like the scum want to show off how smart they or something.) Umm... really? Then how do you propose we move forward? dotchan replies in post 2.25 and pygmy replies in post 2.30: By discussing Day One's posts and voting action. Right. But the only way that has any relevance is when it's coupled when we learn the allegiances of those who have died. If we don't analyze deaths, and go only on Day One's posts and voting action, we might as well not have gotten -any- information. That's why the mods give us allegiances when the players die. Otherwise, we've got nothing. Pygmy further clarifies in post 2.48 and 2.49: You are conflating two concepts. One is using the definite information we have been given - the alignments of hockey monkey and kat - to gain a better understanding of the posts so far. This is obviously of value, and in this way, deaths add to our knowledge. This is altogether different from trying to find out why the kill was as the kill was, which is a venture doomed to failure. That's what I meant. I completely agree that we can never determine why who was killed, there's simply too much WIFOM involved. I think the confusion came from the use of the word "analyzing". dotchan was using it, correctly, to mean "try finding out why who was killed," while I was using it, correctly, to mean "using the information gleaned from the deaths to interpret past actions". The reason I point this conversation out is that first pygmy says that analyzing night-kills and why they were killed is the most powerful weapon we have. When called on this he backtracks and says he meant just the allegiance of those killed all along. First, he obviously believed that we should analyze why someone was killed during Night 1, and starting Day 2 used this to defend Mal. Second, his new position that we should use the allegiance of those killed to extrapolate new information makes no sense at all. The scum will only kill those aligned with the town. I think someone on the scum board told pygmy that they don't want us looking closely at who died and why because it benefits the scum to be able to kill whomever they want and have us just assume the WIFOM is too complicated for us simple townies and forget all about it. Next up is pygmy's info dump post about her read on everyone in post 2.124. I find a number of things about this list odd in relation to players still alive, and if we lynch pygmy and he comes up scum this list will be very interesting. I encourage everyone to go read the whole thing, but I'm just going to quote a couple of them: 2. Hal Briston - I have a peg on him as a pro-town role. I think the thing with Greedy Smurf was odd, but I think it was just poorly worded. BOtD for now. What townie would post that they had a pro-town power-role read on someone? Pygmy has played this game before, and as scum. He knows not to post things like this. I really wonder why, whether town or scum, he would do this? I think scum are more likely to make this slip, though, because they are watching for power roles where town generally aren’t. Also, (I think) this is the first time pygmy mentions Hal since voting for him during Day 1. He went from the most suspicious to pro-town power-role just like that? And of course, Hal winds up dead the next day. Good thing he wasn't one of the power-roles. 4. Malacandra - Seems to be taking a lot of heat ToDay, from several different players, and most of his posts have necessarily been defending himself. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary when he voted YesterDay, but looking back, it does seem very odd the way he tied the votes up. I think pygmy is hedging his bets here. If Mal gets lynched pygmy can point back and say he said Mal's vote was odd, but it seems neutral enough not to make people even more suspicious of Mal. Then in his next post 2.133 he says: As I find the early bandwagon on Malacandra to be suspicious, coupled with Roosh's post, I'm going to vote dotchan, also. So after saying he finds Mal odd for his vote he then defends Mal in a way by saying the bandwagon is suspicious. Instead he jumps on Roosh's reasoning about dotchan and votes for her. Later he says in post 2.177 he decides that dotchan is just a confused townie and unvotes her (though without color): I think dotchan is just what she claims, confused. *grumbles* off for a reread. Unvote dotchan [On quoting I see that the color tag was messed up, but Idle counts the unvote anyway.] After his unvote the votecount is: dotchan (2) - Roosh, Malacandra Roosh (2) - dotchan, cowgirl Malacandra (1) - JSexton Storyteller0910 (1) - Mad the Swine DiggitCamera (1) - GreedySmurf cowgirl (1) - dnooman The unvote was after dnooman made his case against cowgirl. In post 2.194 he says: Ok, I want to vote for JSexton, but that will do no good, and it's not Day 1 anymore, so I can't justify a stray vote. I'm torn between Roosh and dotchan. As per usual, I'm not sure if it's one scum, two scum, or no scum on that pair. I lump them together because of Roosh's very detailed analysis, if you were wondering. I'm not seeing the cowgirl thing. I'm going to have to vote Roosh, in part because such a detailed analysis that convinces people so quickly, frankly, scares me. At the time of this vote the votecount was: dotchan (1) - Roosh Roosh (2) - dotchan, cowgirl cowgirl (3) - dnooman, diggitcamara, Malacandra Malacandra (1) - JSexton Storyteller0910 (1) - Mad the Swine diggitcamara (1) - GreedySmurf MadtheSwine (1) - storyteller There was a very good chance at this point that cowgirl was going to be lynched (which due to my vote she was ) and pygmy defends her. At the same time he votes for Roosh for his detailed analysis--the same detailed analysis that had convinced pygmy to vote for dotchan in the first place. This doesn't make sense to me. During Day 3 (before the runoff) pygmy doesn't cast a vote. For his participation before the runoff read through post 3.103. Once the runoff had started pygmy has this to say in post 3.132: Sorry I didn't get a vote in yesterday, I was confused about the time of day ending, and then was too engrossed in MV to think about who to vote for! I posted this YesterDay: <snip> 4. Malacandra - Seems to be taking a lot of heat ToDay, from several different players, and most of his posts have necessarily been defending himself. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary when he voted YesterDay, but looking back, it does seem very odd the way he tied the votes up. <snip> 18. JSexton - His play style is... odd? I don't really understand the motive of the things he says sometimes, but who knows? I'm willing to give him the BOtD for now. <snip> I used odd to describe both of these players actions. I wonder if they're both scum? If it's only one, you'd think one of the other scum would have changed before the time limit today. Or would that have been too obvious? I'm going to think about this on the way home, I'm not to sure about the pile on, either. Once again hedging. He quotes what he said about them both earlier, and floats that they might both be scum. Of course if pygmy is scum he knows that with the way things are going JSexton is going to be lynched, but says that if only one is scum it wouldn't have been tied. This sets up the thought that well, if one isn't scum then the other must not be either. Of course pygmy would know that eventually Mal might be lynched, so he also plays it safe with the "or would that be too obvious" bit. Later pygmy drops the hammer vote in post 3.139, saying: I'm off to a concert right now, but, concerning JSexton acting "odd", I remember him saying: "You've never seen me as scum," Or something to that effect. Well, if he's acting different, and we've never seen him as scum, I'm going to Vote JSexton. Sorry it ends the day, but I think abstaining is a cop out, I'm leaving for the weekend, and there's already an extension anyway. <Out of Character> I'm going to an awesome "Muzik Fest" in Santa Fe this weekend, so I probably won't be checking in till Monday </OoC> Remember that JSexton hadn't posted at all during the runoff, so we had yet to hear his defense. With this in mind I found pygmy's hammer vote very suspicious. Although we now know that it wouldn't have happened, if JSexton had made it back before the deadline he could have claimed the crazy townie and we probably would have lynched Mal instead. Even though at the time I was convinced JSexton was scum I was still hopeful that he would show up and provide a defense. Why was pygmy willing to end the Day without giving him that chance? I think it was because he knew Mal was scum and thought JSexton might be a power-role and didn't want to give him a chance to claim. I'm going to stop now because this post is long enough and I need to sleep soon. To all the real townies: please think back through pygmy's actions, and maybe review his posts yourself. He's stayed mostly below the radar, but when I add up his actions they seem very scummy as a whole. I think he's the best lynch candidate for Today. Vote pygmy.
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Post by nesta on Aug 23, 2007 1:04:35 GMT -5
Since the Day is getting short I would also like to quickly chime in about storyteller's case against Blaster. In short, I agree. Although it's risky to try to extrapolate why someone hasn't been killed by the scum due to WIFOM, it's been bothering me that neither storyteller or Blaster has been killed. They are both very strong players who haven't been very suspected by the town. They also both have a lot of townie cred for their placement on the drainbead wagon on Day 1. It would seem to me that the scum must want them dead if they are town. So why are they still alive? I've been thinking for Days that it's because one is being used as a cover for the other, or both or scum, or the scum want us to think it's one of the former. WIFOM, yes, but in the past this hasn't stopped the scum from targeting the strong townies. My biggest fear is that they are both scum, and now my fear is that storyteller is throwing Blaster under the bus to become the trusted townie like he was in M2. That said, though, storyteller's case lays out almost exactly what I felt about Blaster when I re-read the the game. (I think I actually made the same case, though much shorter, on the genius board last Night or early Today.) Blaster has been hanging back, throwing out subtle FOSes here and there, but not actively trying to chase scum. This seems very different from what I expected of him. Yesterday I suspected storyteller's as the more likely scum of the two for a number of reasons, but congratulations story-- Blaster has been bumped up in front of you on my suspicion list. I'm sure you're thrilled. So, I support storyteller's case against Blaster. I'm still unsure enough that I think pygmy is a better lynch Today, though. What do you think storyteller? Even if one of us dies Tonight (probably me between the two of us), do you think pygmy is scum and would you be willing to switch your vote now that your suspicion of Blaster is on the record?
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RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
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Post by RoOsh on Aug 23, 2007 1:51:49 GMT -5
Here's the thing, Nesta. I agree ALOT with your descriptions of PygmyRunner.
yesterDay I had initially voted Pygmy before I went with the Dotchan vote of mine.
I severely believe that Pygmy, Diggit, and Dotchan could likely be the 3 scum. That why at first I fig. a vote for any would lead to getting the others. And so I felt, well If I voted for Dotchan instead of Pygmy, I'll get Pygmy the next day when Dotchan turns up scummy, cuz the "ooh shiny" would be proven true. And that's why I had been going w/ my Diggit vote, cuz if he's scum, then I'm gonna look VERY hard at Dotchan AGAIN, but this time with non-biased evidence that someone she mentions is dead and scummy. Pygmy I feel the same way about. It's like 3 scum on a rope, and If i get one, i'll go back and get the others then. That's why I could switch from pygmy to Dotchan to now Diggit.
BUT. Here's the thing. It's a new day and i've been thinking. I may have been misled. Dotchan looks REALLY scummy. But... how do i know she's really scum, and not just Scumbait? Esp. if scum use her as bait? They'd use that as evidence of townie-cred. Which is damn annoying this late in the game.
So here's my thoughts- I think Dotchan is possibly scumbait. But here's the thing. I also think Diggit and Pygmy were her cohorts.
So here's a proposition. Nights are bad. Nights kill us. But... in the dawn we get info.
Scum will kill someone during the night, and who they kill reveals evidence. I think that Nesta and Capy are obv. targets and such, but at this point scum knows all the roles, and i think they've got a bead on the doc too. So they've got a choice, they could take a chance on killing the confirmed townies, or the doc possibly, but they could also kill the others instead. Like greedy.
His death didn't reveal much. But at this juncture, whoever scum kills will reveal something.
And i don't really know why i'm saying this, but it seems logical to me:
I think We as a town should pick between Diggit and Pygmy, Both of them seems scummier to me than Dotchan. I think they WANT us to go for Dotchan, as if she's dead, all it implicates is... well inconsistencies w/ her death, except for her "ooh shiny" for diggit and pygmy.
Obv. I'm hoping the Mafia will hope to kill someone unknown rather than a known role, because I think the known roles should be randomly blocked by the doc. So the Mafia should try to play the WIFOM game for themselves. let them fig. out who the doc. is blocking.
Crap. I lost my point.
Oh. I think Pygmy or Diggit is scum. I think one of their deaths will reveal aLOT about the voting patters of the scum, esp. w/ regards to Dotchan. Those are my big three suspects. But of Pygmy or Diggit, I think Nesta's arguments are better than my own. So
Unvote Diggit Vote PygmyRunner
With a STRONG FOS on the others on my FOS list.
The problem in my thoughts is that Storyteller and madtheswine get away scottfree. And i have a feeling that scum will keep it that way. That or they're scum, and they've set up the dotchan bait for us to be damned. that's all for tonight. It grows late! I strongly urge you Dotchanners to think about this. OKAY. She LOOKS GUILTY AS HELL. But Who's your #2 suspect AFTER DOTCHAN and WHY? Mine are Pygmy and Diggit, that's why I've voted for them. What's dotchan's death gonna give us? Vs. your #2 suspect's death? Which gives more info?
/ramble
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