RoOsh
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 11:59:17 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jun 13, 2009 11:59:17 GMT -5
If I end up dead toDay or Tomorrow I suggest town try to lynch Pleo again. Why? Why give the scum an easy out sorta thing (if they know he's town, they can just NK you for fun and perpetuate the lynch as following your last wishes). I always hate those sorts of statement, they're pointless and serve to explain nothing except to show that you're thumping your chest on how you could be NK-able. Good job.
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 12:08:02 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jun 13, 2009 12:08:02 GMT -5
I think this is what you aren't understanding. At this point it doesn't matter if the doctor is exposed. Like you said, there are only likely to be 1 or 2 scum left in a pool of 11 players. Town has a huge advantage right now and it is time to leverage it and get some concrete information. That's actually not why I'm against the Mass claim at all. In case if you've forgotten, I've been saying from the start of this game that I don't really think Pleonast is the recruitable mechanism of the game. I think a mass claim would expose the Doctor sure, BUT it'd also expose a specific character whose existence may be the only thing keeping the recruitment from happening. I'm always a fan of sticking to Canon for games, and that's what I'm curious about. Because there's ONE person from the films who didn't believe in killing or hurting people (besides there are kids in that park), it wasn't until something happened to the love of his life that he was able to join the ELE. That's what I'm worried about- I fear the recruitment may have to do with PENNY more than it has to do with Pleonast just reading his role PM. In fact, I still don't understand why people say Pleonast is the recruitment role- his PM (if he's been honest about it) mentions nothing about recruitment. That's why I'm so suspicious of your plans NAF- There's a possibility of exposing the doctor sure, but there's ALSO a possibility of exposing a role that scum may need to KILL in order to add one more to their numbers. That's not cool- especially if it means one of the investigated townies may turn, ya dig- then the investigator is fucked if there's a GF and a previous Townie now Scum, as he won't have time to live much longer. That's the problem I forsee with the mass claim and it's NOT a good idea. That's also why Total Lost i kept pestering you- because if you were Penny, I'd be of the mind NOT to lynch you. Just because I think that's the most likely area of a recruitment mechanism based on the roles we've already seen.
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 12:11:10 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jun 13, 2009 12:11:10 GMT -5
RooshI think I can explain the anti-town thing Total was talking about. In the SSBM game Hoopy went on and on insisting that the Scotsman role is inherently anti-town and that anyone who had that role should just let town lynch them twice and that it was their townie duty to not even put a fight just to get them out of the way. That's kinda stupid. A scotsman's goal is simply to act inconspicuous and hope to be NK'ed. If under suspicion they should totally fight it. To give in gives the scum a chance of a guilt free lynch. The problem is the stupid existence of unlynchable (even if one time) scum- that's a role that needs to be better balanced or just not used- a power to prevent a lynch is fine, a power to dodge a NK is fine, but to have scum w/ a strongman vs. a lynch power is just... imbalanced and shouldn't be around. A strongman when lynched should be assumed to be town. But that's neither here nor there.
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Natlaw
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 14:25:49 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Jun 13, 2009 14:25:49 GMT -5
I could just be having trouble parsing this, but can you explain what you mean here? Also, I'm just curious. You voted for NAF on Day Four because you didn't like his reasoning for the mass claim idea. Why are you more okay with it now, exactly? I'm not more okay with it, but just the idea that we should mass claim doesn't hurt us. The thing that is I find not okay with it is the way he present it: just dump it and let others find out what the snags are.
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Natlaw
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 14:32:09 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Jun 13, 2009 14:32:09 GMT -5
That's why I'm so suspicious of your plans NAF- There's a possibility of exposing the doctor sure, but there's ALSO a possibility of exposing a role that scum may need to KILL in order to add one more to their numbers. That's not cool- especially if it means one of the investigated townies may turn, ya dig- then the investigator is fucked if there's a GF and a previous Townie now Scum, as he won't have time to live much longer. Combined with sinjin's 'If I end up dead toDay or Tomorrow I suggest town try to lynch Pleo again.' that doesn't seem just a possibility anymore. sinjin: do you really claim to be a recruitment trigger on death and know that Pleonast to be the one that will be recruited or is that a guess?
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 14:52:10 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jun 13, 2009 14:52:10 GMT -5
[redacted]
There was nothing game-breaking in this post, but I'd rather not have non-players verifying or not verifying what players are saying.
--FCOD
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 17:15:50 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jun 13, 2009 17:15:50 GMT -5
Booo. Bad Hoopy... So uh, was anyone online during 3:50-4:10 pm to know what hoopy said?
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 18:30:16 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Jun 13, 2009 18:30:16 GMT -5
If I end up dead toDay or Tomorrow I suggest town try to lynch Pleo again. Why? Why give the scum an easy out sorta thing (if they know he's town, they can just NK you for fun and perpetuate the lynch as following your last wishes). I always hate those sorts of statement, they're pointless and serve to explain nothing except to show that you're thumping your chest on how you could be NK-able. Good job. Oh bite me Roosh. I explained above why I think Pleo has changed. How's this for you sensibilities: Tomorrow I'm going to advocate that we try a Pleo lynch again. I think he's posting differently. It's to late toDay to do anything about it. I was just trying to go on record for how I feel. Something that I recall you advocating many times before. Play each day as if it's your last.
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 18:41:28 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Jun 13, 2009 18:41:28 GMT -5
sinjin: do you really claim to be a recruitment trigger on death and know that Pleonast to be the one that will be recruited or is that a guess? Heh, no, I didn't even give a thought about it being taken that way. I just think I've been a bit of a thorn in scum's side. And I think that Pleo's posting style today is at odds with his posting earlier in the game. Without going back and looking because I don't have a lot of time. He just seemed off to me. Case in point his vote for TL for saying she had nothing in common with him. Crappy reason to vote, like he was just looking for a reason. FTR I'm not at all sure I believe TL's claim. It does seem a bit silly to have an unlynchable TL and an unlynchable Pleo. However, IS could investigate her tonight and we can lynch her tomorrow if she turns up scum. But IS would have to survive the night as well (Is it ok to say that Roosh?) I prefer to lynch NAF today.
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 19:20:37 GMT -5
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Jun 13, 2009 19:20:37 GMT -5
Booo. Bad Hoopy... So uh, was anyone online during 3:50-4:10 pm to know what hoopy said? It had nothing to do with this game's setup so don't bother asking. It was a metagame post related to the discussions involving me and the fact that certain posters seemingly feel free to represent and/or comment on positions that I have supposedly taken in past games. And apparently I can't comment on the accuracy of those representations based on FCOD's editing of my posts. But since I can't I'm going to kindly request that you stop discussing me based on hearsay. If you want to find out my position on the scotsman thing, read the game thread of Super Mario starting with my claim in reply 20 of Day 5.
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Day Six
Jun 13, 2009 19:28:14 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Jun 13, 2009 19:28:14 GMT -5
I'm sorry if I misrepresented your position Hoopy if you want to pm me what your position is I'll be happy to clarify. My take on it does seem to be the same as TL's. BTW, in pedes Mario Brothers game did you notice that I said in the sign-up thread that I would play if and only if you were made a Scotsman?
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 1:02:30 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Jun 14, 2009 1:02:30 GMT -5
I'm tired of trying to lynch Pleonast. It didn't work the first two times. If sinjin or someone else thinks there's been a change in the setup that makes it worth it to the town to lynch him then I'd like to see some sort of argument beyond a vague difference in posting. I don't want to try it a third time and have it not work or work and we find we've lynched a townie and lynching Total doesn't smell right to me.
I think Roosh may be onto something with Penny as the key to recruitment. I'd like to not add any to the scum right now and NAF's plan of the doc claiming seems too risky. I'd like the doc to stay hidden as long as possible. Vote: NAF
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Total Ullz
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 3:25:35 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Jun 14, 2009 3:25:35 GMT -5
That's also why Total Lost i kept pestering you- because if you were Penny, I'd be of the mind NOT to lynch you. Just because I think that's the most likely area of a recruitment mechanism based on the roles we've already seen. I'm not Penny. And I have no reason to think I can recruit/be recruited.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 5:00:50 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 14, 2009 5:00:50 GMT -5
Here's a question for people.
There seems to be a widespread assumption that 0a) Dr Horrible himself is the only player who might be recruitable, and (b) that it is Penny's death that makes him switch sides.
Other roles that I thought might be turnable are the Groupies and the Mayor. (We see the Mayor bowing his head to Dr H in the party in the Doctor's lair, I think.) Of course, that might justify having the Mayor be in the ELE anyway.
Let's remember, fans of stick-close-to-colour; Dr Horrible wa not an unwilling recruit to the ELE. He spent the whole show wanting to join. His plans were about how to get in. Consequently, if we're sticking close to colour, Dr H should be trying to join the ELE, and be unable to win unless he does so.
I don't like the idea of that role. "You can't win unless some event happens" is a sucky wincon unless the player has some way to try and make that event happen, should he wish it to.
Let's face it; the mechanism might be "Captain Hammer kills an innocent bystander." In which case it has already happened, with the death of Special Ed. But that would really suck for Town, because Storyteller claimed to be a compulsory Vig, and his Night 1 action would almost certainly have killed an innocent bystander (ie a Townsperson) had Pleo not claimed and proved invulnerable (so far anyway) to kills. I think we can rule that hypothesis out.
I have to go out soon, which will give me a chance to let this brew.
As for who to vote for, I don't know yet. My attempts to examine players post histories don't get too far.
More later.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 9:51:48 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 14, 2009 9:51:48 GMT -5
So, a review of the living players. Maybe it will help focus my thoughts on who to vote for, or at least where to look for pointers on who to vote for. (Man, an unbroken night's sleep does wonders for one's thought processes).
The living players, in alphabetical order.
BillMc Inner Stickler KidVermicious Mhaye NAF1138 Natlaw Pleonast Pollux Roosh sinjin Total Lost
We can break them down as follows.
Claimed Inner Stickler : Male News Anchor, Town-aligned Alignment detective. NAF : Moving man 1, Vanilla Town. Pollux : Groupie 1, Town-aligned pseudo-Mason.
I'm labelling Pollux a “pseudo-Mason” because both he and AH claimed not to have been told that the other was Town, and one main characteristic of Mason groups is that each knows the alignment of the others. I also tend to accept IS's claim since it matches with the late ZLW's.
Part claim : Pleonast claims Dead Bowie, Town aligned ex-ELE who (a) may be recruitable, (b) investigates as non-Town (so miller) and has resistance to kills (or a conditional immunity, we're not clear which).
No claims. BillMc KidVermicious Mhaye Natlaw Roosh Sinjin Total Lost.
I don't consider a claim of having shoes to be any sort of roleclaim. It's a claim to have a restriction on revealing your role, but that could be bolted to any role with the punishment that if you reveal your role you lose the power.
Our claimed Detective has reported as follows. Night 1 : Sinjin is Town. Night 2 : Failed to take action. Night 3 : Storyteller is Town (verified by death). Night 4 : Kat is ELE (verified by death) Night 5 : BillMc is Town.
I can't see why the ELE would get an alignment investigator, unless there is a third party player that they need to find and recruit. It's still possible that IS is some other kind of investigator and is using his knowledge of who is or is not ELE to substantiate his reports while he does something else. But that he is some sort of investigator I think is highly likely.
Even if he is who he says, we can't 100% trust his investigations until we eliminate the possibility of a Godfather in the game.
Who to vote for is still an open question in my mind. I tend to agree that it should come from the folks that have not either claimed, nor been investigated by IS and claimed Town-aligned. That means lynching from KidVermicious, Mhaye, Natlaw, Roosh and Total Lost.
Obviously, since I know I'm a Townsperson, you should not lynch me, so that leaves the other four. I'd also include NAF in the list though, because he has only claimed vanilla and that is totally unverifiable.
I'll be back soonish.
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 10:45:38 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 14, 2009 10:45:38 GMT -5
Total Lost (3*) - NAF1138, BillMc, Natlaw NAF1138 (3) - Roosh, Total Lost, Inner Stickler MHaye (1) - Pollux BillMc (1) - Pleonast
Sorry for the delayed vote count. I missed Pleo's vote yesterday.
--FCOD
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 11:33:49 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jun 14, 2009 11:33:49 GMT -5
I think Pleo is scum. I also have a nasty suspicion that something is charged with votes for him. I don't know what to do about that.
I don't really think either of NAF or Total is scum. They're both bugging me, but not strongly. Wih two hours to go, though, that's what my choices are. Lynching NAF is safe, he's claimed vanilla. Lynching Total removes a distraction. Feh.
Vote: NAF
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 11:39:41 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jun 14, 2009 11:39:41 GMT -5
I'm tired of trying to lynch Pleonast. It didn't work the first two times. If sinjin or someone else thinks there's been a change in the setup that makes it worth it to the town to lynch him then I'd like to see some sort of argument beyond a vague difference in posting. I don't want to try it a third time and have it not work or work and we find we've lynched a townie and lynching Total doesn't smell right to me. You know you can do a good part on trying to prevent a Pleonast Lynch if you feel it's a waste of time. You DO have the ability to check people's roles. NAF and Pleonast both are still unverified players and I don't like those advocating that we should lynch from the unclaimed pool and aren't including those two players. Hell, NAF's claim bugs me- he's claiming Moving Guy #1 that makes me wonder- Where's moving guy #2? Is there a role out there named that? If so then that might help give him some credibility (though like the groupies it could be a null tell). I myself am hesitant of a Pleonast lynch because I think he's Town, but mhaye is right there are a few roles that could potentially be recruitable. At this point, Sticky, I don't want to tell you how to do your job, but if you're frustrated w/ the Pleonast idea (and I admit I don't like the idea of a pleonast lynch either unless we get another no-kill Night) it would be helpful to maybe know the guy's alignment. Especially since I think that Pleonast is NOT the Godfather- namely because the idea of an unkillable Godfather sounds insane to me and horribly broken. So if Pleonast actually IS town, that'd be good to know. Same if he were a 3rd Party (as again we still don't know what the DK mechanism is, and they seem only to have occurred near the pleonast lynches, which does worry me. The idea of an unkillable 3rd Party Role... well that makes more sense to me than the unkillable GF.
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 11:42:10 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jun 14, 2009 11:42:10 GMT -5
Wih two hours to go, though, that's what my choices are. Lynching NAF is safe, he's claimed vanilla. Lynching Total removes a distraction. Feh. Vote: NAF [/color][/quote] I don't like this vote reasoning... it pings me. Why not vote for who YOU think is scummiest then? Because you did cast a vital vote there....
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 11:44:57 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jun 14, 2009 11:44:57 GMT -5
Because I'm not going to vote for Pleo, I said that.
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RoOsh
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 11:54:52 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on Jun 14, 2009 11:54:52 GMT -5
But could you at least explain why you feel NAF is worthier of lynching vs. TL. Because when I read your vote, it seems to say you'd rather Lynch for a "vanilla Townie" than a "Distraction".
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 12:14:58 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 14, 2009 12:14:58 GMT -5
NAF1138 (4) - Roosh, Total Lost, Inner Stickler, KidV Total Lost (3) - NAF1138, BillMc, Natlaw MHaye (1) - Pollux BillMc (1) - Pleonast
--FCOD
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Merestil Haye
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 12:27:26 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 14, 2009 12:27:26 GMT -5
I'm fairly sure (having reread Day 5) that I understand what Total Lost was trying to claim. If it is true, and she is Town aligned, then lynching her will allow her power claim to be tested, by using it up. If she is Town-aligned, this would create a WiFOM situation for the ELE.
The alternative, right now, is settling for a lynch of a claimed Vanilla in NAF. Now, NAF, when he made his claim, made a misstatement; he claimed to have quoted the moving man's lines in his first post of Day 1, which is untrue. However, I did find the quote, in NAF's second post of Night 0. Now if you ask me it would be more likely for a Townsperson to make that sort of mistake than a member of the ELE. The latter would want to dot all the 'i's and cross all the 't's, and would go and make sure the claim was where he remembered. So, I tend to believe his claim.
I do agree that he's behaving a little like he was in Ragnarok, where (as all now know) he was the chief of the Children of Loke.
On the whole, I think Total would be a better lynch than NAF.
So Vote: Total Lost .
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 12:42:21 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on Jun 14, 2009 12:42:21 GMT -5
Ok, so Bill is on the investigated Town list. Back to my original vote then. unvote BillMc vote Total Lost While the slip she made doesn't seem like much to the rest of you, her statement was about me, and does not seem like something a Townie would make.
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 12:44:04 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jun 14, 2009 12:44:04 GMT -5
But could you at least explain why you feel NAF is worthier of lynching vs. TL. Because when I read your vote, it seems to say you'd rather Lynch for a "vanilla Townie" than a "Distraction". Well, good, I'm glad we're on the same page. Seriously, I've not tried to hide the fact that I'm suspicious of both of them. I don't find either of them the scummiest, but I'm not going to vote for the scummiest, and they're the vote leaders, so I'm going to vote for one of them. I don't find either more likely to be scum than the other, so I'm basing my vote on potential damage to Town if I'm wrong. I'm not incredibly conversant with the color. MHaye, are you saying that you think Total is Town, and lynching her would be a net benefit for Town?
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 12:49:15 GMT -5
Post by KidVermicious on Jun 14, 2009 12:49:15 GMT -5
MHaye, I think you need to unvote Pollux.
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Merestil Haye
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 12:55:22 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 14, 2009 12:55:22 GMT -5
MHaye, I think you need to unvote Pollux. No, I don't; my vote for Total was my first vote Today. Pollux has voted Me. I need to get some post links to answer your question in D06.115. It shouldn't take too long, as they're in the last couple of Days.
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 12:58:56 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Jun 14, 2009 12:58:56 GMT -5
Unvote Mhaye Vote NAF
I think NAF should be lynched instead of Total Lost. I'm much more suspicious of him than of TL.
Unfortunately, this just makes it a tie, and more than likely none of the Total Lost voters are going to switch.
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 13:17:37 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Jun 14, 2009 13:17:37 GMT -5
Other roles that I thought might be turnable are the Groupies and the Mayor. (We see the Mayor bowing his head to Dr H in the party in the Doctor's lair, I think.) Of course, that might justify having the Mayor be in the ELE anyway. I'm actually curious why you think the Groupies are open for recruitment, especially since one Groupie is already dead. There was no mention of recruitment or possibility of recruitment in my PM at all.
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Day Six
Jun 14, 2009 13:23:33 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 14, 2009 13:23:33 GMT -5
Total Lost (5*) - NAF1138, BillMc, Natlaw, MHaye, Pleonast NAF1138 (5) - Roosh, Total Lost, Inner Stickler, KidV, Pollux
--FCOD
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