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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2012 21:13:30 GMT -5
fair enough burby there are a couple of things i know for sure about this game and some other stuff that i just am kind of supposing. but unless gnarlie is the town vig they picked an odd fucking time to start coming out and they sure as shit picked some crappy non town oriented targets. if the collective wants jan or myself lynched i fully understand. but if that happens my/our block goes anywhere but gnarley. i guaran damn tee you that. then we get a dead fucking witch manana. which actually helps me. tee it up mother fuckers. Of course you want dead witches. You have no incentive to block the vampire regardless of who gets lynched make it worth my while and i'll play for a Day or so. let's lynch a lurker and i will block gnarley toNight. matter of fact that kind of makes sense now that i think about it. gnarley won't get NK'ed since that fucks our canine friend(s). [g]gnarley[/b] won't be able to kill so that is just a push. gnarley gets to live for another Day. we get another round of mason shaking and baking. witches don't have to come out of the closet, yet. and we whack a lurker. where does the logic break down? and i'll even be so generous as to allow ed the honor of picking out the lurker to go bye bye. that way i or someone else doesn't accidentally choose a witch. you cool with that?
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Post by septimus on Feb 3, 2012 21:19:14 GMT -5
Brains?!???
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 22:06:25 GMT -5
Of course you want dead witches. You have no incentive to block the vampire regardless of who gets lynched make it worth my while and i'll play for a Day or so. let's lynch a lurker and i will block gnarley toNight. matter of fact that kind of makes sense now that i think about it. gnarley won't get NK'ed since that fucks our canine friend(s). [g]gnarley [/b] won't be able to kill so that is just a push. gnarley gets to live for another Day. we get another round of mason shaking and baking. witches don't have to come out of the closet, yet. and we whack a lurker. where does the logic break down? and i'll even be so generous as to allow ed the honor of picking out the lurker to go bye bye. that way i or someone else doesn't accidentally choose a witch. you cool with that?[/quote] The logic breaks down in the you, the Cabal, have zero incentive t block anyone you suspect is the vampire. But you have much incentive into leading us to believe you will. If you really knew who the vampire was, you wouldn't tell us so that we could lynch him. You need him now to increase your chances of killing Witches.
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Post by texcat on Feb 3, 2012 22:47:55 GMT -5
BRAINS? Did someone mention yummy BRAINS!!?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 3, 2012 23:31:46 GMT -5
Really? Where did I indicate that? You not so subtly indicate your doubt of witches seems to be a subtle attempt to get a claim on a day when no claims are needed Where did I indicate a doubt of there being any witches?
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2012 23:57:59 GMT -5
You not so subtly indicate your doubt of witches seems to be a subtle attempt to get a claim on a day when no claims are needed Where did I indicate a doubt of there being any witches? Yeah, my mistake. I confused a comment someone else made with you.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Feb 4, 2012 8:43:26 GMT -5
CIAS, i believe i've played with peeker enough to know that's just his playstyle and i responded similarly believing he wouldn't take it the wrong way. there was a thread where he discussed his playing style and there was a general agreement that he doesn't mean any malice.
back to the game.
why doesn't anyone seem to be addressing my points? how could i fake my results? how could i be sure that peeker and Silver Jan aren't Freemasons if i were Undead? if i were Undead, why would i fakeclaim without pressure? and claim Freemason? it would be very easy to verify that i was lying. so i would also have the same power of the Cabal to mask my identity?
why trust peeker? he has a vested interested in seeing me lynched rather than Silver Jan. he's proven in the past that he can be a lying liar whether Town or not.
for those voting for me:
if you're not Town, fine. if you're Town, what's the logic behind your votes?
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 4, 2012 8:53:43 GMT -5
Where did I indicate a doubt of there being any witches? Yeah, my mistake. I confused a comment someone else made with you. Just as you thinking I only mentioned the possibility of you being cabal once, when actually it was only once that I didn't mention the possibility of you being cabal. So that's at least twice you've smudged me now without valid evidence. I know you have this new playing style and all where you don't like to actually go back and review things, but it's rather annoying to have to defend oneself against bogus cases. It also gives you a wonderful meta-game excuse for making lousy cases regardless of alignment. So anytime you are scum, you can point to the fact that you do this even as town as a reason for people not to vote you, yet you can sit there and smudge people as well as create extra noise, pretty nice deal from your standpoint. Lousy for the rest of us, though. Vote: special ed I really don't expect anyone to follow me on this since we have much bigger fish to fry, nor do I think you are anywhere near the best lynch option, but your resistance to actually paying attention is both anti-town and a wonderful way for scum to hide.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 4, 2012 9:06:37 GMT -5
why doesn't anyone seem to be addressing my points? how could i fake my results? how could i be sure that peeker and Silver Jan aren't Freemasons if i were Undead? if i were Undead, why would i fakeclaim without pressure? and claim Freemason? it would be very easy to verify that i was lying. so i would also have the same power of the Cabal to mask my identity? why trust peeker? he has a vested interested in seeing me lynched rather than Silver Jan. he's proven in the past that he can be a lying liar whether Town or not. for those voting for me: if you're not Town, fine. if you're Town, what's the logic behind your votes? I already went over this. There was evidence that peeker and jan came up differently with different people. So if the vamp was getting blocked by cabal, the vamp already knows that it's hands are tied. But by claiming mason, which is a Day power, the cabal might stop blocking this vamp and look somewhere else, thus leaving the vamp free to kill for a bit. Also, should someone try to shake with the vamp, the vamp can always claim that someone is messing with the results, since it's already established that some shenanigans are going on concerning the masons. A consistently blocked vampire is as good as dead anyway, so why not take the chance? And people had already said that peeker and jan came back not-mason at some point, so claiming that they came back not-mason for you, isn't any gamble on your part if you're the vamp, because other people are wrong or right just as you. Which means if we decide to lynch people for being wrong, there's more than just you to go through. And conveniently, the only mason who shook with you isn't around to confirm the shake. As an unconfirmed mason, why wouldn't you want to shake with a confirmed mason, and let the confirmed masons shake with the questionable ones instead. Because shaking with the questionable ones means nothing. If they're not mason, it won't prove you are. You had a bunch of masons who had already been confirmed by other masons, and weren't in dispute about being mason, so you choose to shake with a disputed one? Why? Without you being confirmed already, your claims hold little water.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Feb 4, 2012 9:29:25 GMT -5
why doesn't anyone seem to be addressing my points? how could i fake my results? how could i be sure that peeker and Silver Jan aren't Freemasons if i were Undead? if i were Undead, why would i fakeclaim without pressure? and claim Freemason? it would be very easy to verify that i was lying. so i would also have the same power of the Cabal to mask my identity? why trust peeker? he has a vested interested in seeing me lynched rather than Silver Jan. he's proven in the past that he can be a lying liar whether Town or not. for those voting for me: if you're not Town, fine. if you're Town, what's the logic behind your votes? I already went over this. There was evidence that peeker and jan came up differently with different people. So if the vamp was getting blocked by cabal, the vamp already knows that it's hands are tied. But by claiming mason, which is a Day power, the cabal might stop blocking this vamp and look somewhere else, thus leaving the vamp free to kill for a bit. Also, should someone try to shake with the vamp, the vamp can always claim that someone is messing with the results, since it's already established that some shenanigans are going on concerning the masons. A consistently blocked vampire is as good as dead anyway, so why not take the chance? And people had already said that peeker and jan came back not-mason at some point, so claiming that they came back not-mason for you, isn't any gamble on your part if you're the vamp, because other people are wrong or right just as you. Which means if we decide to lynch people for being wrong, there's more than just you to go through. And conveniently, the only mason who shook with you isn't around to confirm the shake. As an unconfirmed mason, why wouldn't you want to shake with a confirmed mason, and let the confirmed masons shake with the questionable ones instead. Because shaking with the questionable ones means nothing. If they're not mason, it won't prove you are. You had a bunch of masons who had already been confirmed by other masons, and weren't in dispute about being mason, so you choose to shake with a disputed one? Why? Without you being confirmed already, your claims hold little water. what's wrong with my handshake choices? i missed peeker on D1 so i chose him on D2. i got a not a Freemason response so i chose Silver Jan thinking she was a Freemason fooled by peeker. i didn't check the sequence of people who said they weren't Freemasons. i don't know if they announce before or after me. it certainly helped out the Cabal. so again, why believe peeker? no NKs could be explained by a block by someone else, an absentee player or a player who forgot. if i survive toDay, i hope to be finally confirmed just as the other unconfimed Freemasons.
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Post by special on Feb 4, 2012 10:56:05 GMT -5
I already went over this. There was evidence that peeker and jan came up differently with different people. So if the vamp was getting blocked by cabal, the vamp already knows that it's hands are tied. But by claiming mason, which is a Day power, the cabal might stop blocking this vamp and look somewhere else, thus leaving the vamp free to kill for a bit. Also, should someone try to shake with the vamp, the vamp can always claim that someone is messing with the results, since it's already established that some shenanigans are going on concerning the masons. A consistently blocked vampire is as good as dead anyway, so why not take the chance? And people had already said that peeker and jan came back not-mason at some point, so claiming that they came back not-mason for you, isn't any gamble on your part if you're the vamp, because other people are wrong or right just as you. Which means if we decide to lynch people for being wrong, there's more than just you to go through. And conveniently, the only mason who shook with you isn't around to confirm the shake. As an unconfirmed mason, why wouldn't you want to shake with a confirmed mason, and let the confirmed masons shake with the questionable ones instead. Because shaking with the questionable ones means nothing. If they're not mason, it won't prove you are. You had a bunch of masons who had already been confirmed by other masons, and weren't in dispute about being mason, so you choose to shake with a disputed one? Why? Without you being confirmed already, your claims hold little water. what's wrong with my handshake choices? i missed peeker on D1 so i chose him on D2. i got a not a Freemason response so i chose Silver Jan thinking she was a Freemason fooled by peeker. i didn't check the sequence of people who said they weren't Freemasons. i don't know if they announce before or after me. it certainly helped out the Cabal. so again, why believe peeker? no NKs could be explained by a block by someone else, an absentee player or a player who forgot. if i survive toDay, i hope to be finally confirmed just as the other unconfimed Freemasons. I certainly don't trust peeker. As I've already stated, outed Cabal wouldn't want the Vampire lynched. Now, if peeker just hadn't realized that and gave you up hoping he could save himself of Jan for a little while, that's something he might have done, I suppose. However, I think it more likely that he doesn't think you're the vampire but want you lynched anyway. As to your results. All during Night 2 and Day 3, you knew peeker wasn't a mason, so you chose Jan. You truly thought that she was being fooled? Even though there was so much evidence that if peeker was lying (which you believed) so was she? Especially given the 9 mason claims? I find that hard to beleive. What's more believable is that you chose to fake a target which couldn't disprove your Masonhood. You gave your result after 2 others had also reported that Jan was not a mason. You were truly safe by then.
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Post by special on Feb 4, 2012 11:02:22 GMT -5
Yeah, my mistake. I confused a comment someone else made with you. Just as you thinking I only mentioned the possibility of you being cabal once, when actually it was only once that I didn't mention the possibility of you being cabal. So that's at least twice you've smudged me now without valid evidence. I know you have this new playing style and all where you don't like to actually go back and review things, but it's rather annoying to have to defend oneself against bogus cases. It also gives you a wonderful meta-game excuse for making lousy cases regardless of alignment. So anytime you are scum, you can point to the fact that you do this even as town as a reason for people not to vote you, yet you can sit there and smudge people as well as create extra noise, pretty nice deal from your standpoint. Lousy for the rest of us, though. Vote: special ed [/color] I really don't expect anyone to follow me on this since we have much bigger fish to fry, nor do I think you are anywhere near the best lynch option, but your resistance to actually paying attention is both anti-town and a wonderful way for scum to hide.[/quote] storyteller barked up that tree last game and won the game for Scum. An interesting theory, that I've chosen to play poorly so that I can win more as Scum. It assumes that my change in style was to make it more difficult to figure out my alignment. However, why would I want to do that unless my alignment as being too easily exposed. And if so, wouldn't I just try to alter my playstyle as Scum to match my plastyle as Town? It avoids the more reasonable explanation that I've alter my playstyle to make the game more fun for myself. However, you're also making a further assumption that storyteller did not. You're assuming the cause of my errors is my new playstyle. I didn't do an in-depth analysis, but I think I've made a serious number of errors of this type even with my previous playstyle. I could go back and find examples, but I don't want to.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 4, 2012 14:07:47 GMT -5
CIAS, i believe i've played with peeker enough to know that's just his playstyle and i responded similarly believing he wouldn't take it the wrong way. there was a thread where he discussed his playing style and there was a general agreement that he doesn't mean any malice. back to the game. why doesn't anyone seem to be addressing my points? how could i fake my results? how could i be sure that peeker and Silver Jan aren't Freemasons if i were Undead? if i were Undead, why would i fakeclaim without pressure? and claim Freemason? it would be very easy to verify that i was lying. so i would also have the same power of the Cabal to mask my identity? why trust peeker? he has a vested interested in seeing me lynched rather than Silver Jan. he's proven in the past that he can be a lying liar whether Town or not. for those voting for me: if you're not Town, fine. if you're Town, what's the logic behind your votes? thanks charles i kind of knew we were on the same page regarding playstyles. and actually lynching anyone but you is more optimal than lynching someone else. i can't kill so i kind of need a NKiller around to advance my win condition. but i also know that if we keep an additional killer in the game leaving the nec to continue to making vampires everyone but undead loses prettty durn quick. i'm just showing my pique in thumbing it at town for making a less than optimal play (yasee in the peek universe that would have come out as being dumb asses). sorry i don't reward or encourage sub optimal play.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 4, 2012 14:18:58 GMT -5
and it's fucking lynch not lunch. now if gnarley were to be a witch (which can't be so based on his posts) then i could see your recalcitrance to his lynch (or lunch if you prefer). and charles ffs sake why miss my handshake on D1? that just gives further credence that you ain't town or cabal. maybe fucking wolf i guess. but you sure as shit are not a mason.
and folks i am trying to play this straight up at this point. i (and the rest of you) need to slow down deaths and get the nec. we get a killer and our witches get a chance of pegging the nec. then i can start blocking and identify one that is definitely the not the nec if the witches don't nail them first.
jeebuz, what's fucking nefarious about that.
i'd like to win but i'll take the red ribbon at this point.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 4, 2012 14:23:39 GMT -5
btw, all you smart folks. guiri was cabal.
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Feb 4, 2012 14:25:36 GMT -5
i'd like to win but i'll take the red ribbon at this point. You should have considered desiring to win, or even stick around, before you played your little gambit and brought one of your rookie Cabalite buddies along for the ride. Town lynches Scum, it's what we do. You only have some very half-assed guesses, backed up solely by the confusing web of logic that you always spin. Unfortunately, it's really not enough for Town to lynch Town in an attempt for... what? You to possibly use your block in a manner that would be detrimental to your miniscule and ever-lessening chances of winning?
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Feb 4, 2012 14:26:30 GMT -5
NETA: I'm not saying that gnarlycharlie, or any of peeker's other possible lynch targets for today are actually Town. Just that they're a hell of a lot more likely to be Town than he is.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 4, 2012 15:25:16 GMT -5
Having read through, I think I'll offer a few pearls of wisdom. You need to remember two things about the Cabal's situation. - The Cabal, more than any other faction in Conspiracy, must rely on guile and deception to achieve their ends. The cannot rely on force, because they don't have any at their disposal.
- Their aim, right now, is to kill two Witches. In their current situation, nothing else matters. If they fail in that aim, they cannot win.
With the exception of C2, the Cabal have never had any ability to kill directly; instead they must rely on harnessing the teeth and claws of the two killing factions,or (as we did in C3) redirect the Vig to one of the Witches. They can't expect to lynch the Witches because Witches are, in practice, unlynchable. They are a three-man Masonry with powers to investigate and/or protect players, learning Factions. The Masonry aspect is enough to end any chance of getting one lynched except in the case of a real fluke. My point is that I don't believe Peeker would be urging us to lynch Gnarly if he sincerely believed Gnarly to be a Vampire. Necromancer, yes - he'd be all over Gnarly if he thought Gnarly was a Necromancer, but he wants the Vampire to kill. If Peeker is really a Cabalist, then the last thing he wants is to end the Vampire's killing spree right now. I need to break off. There will be more but it might not be for a few hours.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 4, 2012 15:42:47 GMT -5
i'd like to win but i'll take the red ribbon at this point. You should have considered desiring to win, or even stick around, before you played your little gambit and brought one of your rookie Cabalite buddies along for the ride. Town lynches Scum, it's what we do. You only have some very half-assed guesses, backed up solely by the confusing web of logic that you always spin. Unfortunately, it's really not enough for Town to lynch Town in an attempt for... what? You to possibly use your block in a manner that would be detrimental to your miniscule and ever-lessening chances of winning? fair enough. yeh, i try to win. and i guess in a normal game town could and should certainly just take easy lynches. of course, in this game that means town loses. and yes i do make conclusions based on information that i possess that is less than perfect. carp, if i knew the alignement and every role that every player possessed that wouldn't be a bunch of fun to me. kind of like a murder mystery where the killer would be discolsed in the introduction. and if you don't think that my block potential is of possible town value i am not sure that you have analyzed the situation correctly. i/we can stop a kill or a zombie creation. if you can't see any town benefit in that, then meh. and i re ran the numbers. worse case for town is that you lynch me and jan. then two more cycles of two Night kills. two more zombies. town is down a net EIGHT. i'm trying to figure out how in the world that makes sense.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 4, 2012 15:43:56 GMT -5
Botheration. I forgot to subscribe to the thread.
One other thought. It's been suggested that there are no Witches, because nine confirmable Townies, even in two groups, is a lot.
If there are in fact no Witches, then the whole Cabal faction is added to the lynch burden for Town right at the start. To have a typically low number of Town (say 13) meaning we need to lynch 12 players (minus any cross-kills which have not, at least up to N2, been happening) is unacceptably high. If there are no Witches, then we will find a considerably larger number of Town - perhaps as high as 15 or 16 - to reduce the lynch burden to acceptable levels.
More after I've spent some time with Yattara.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 4, 2012 15:52:11 GMT -5
Having read through, I think I'll offer a few pearls of wisdom. You need to remember two things about the Cabal's situation. - The Cabal, more than any other faction in Conspiracy, must rely on guile and deception to achieve their ends. The cannot rely on force, because they don't have any at their disposal.
- Their aim, right now, is to kill two Witches. In their current situation, nothing else matters. If they fail in that aim, they cannot win.
With the exception of C2, the Cabal have never had any ability to kill directly; instead they must rely on harnessing the teeth and claws of the two killing factions,or (as we did in C3) redirect the Vig to one of the Witches. They can't expect to lynch the Witches because Witches are, in practice, unlynchable. They are a three-man Masonry with powers to investigate and/or protect players, learning Factions. The Masonry aspect is enough to end any chance of getting one lynched except in the case of a real fluke. My point is that I don't believe Peeker would be urging us to lynch Gnarly if he sincerely believed Gnarly to be a Vampire. Necromancer, yes - he'd be all over Gnarly if he thought Gnarly was a Necromancer, but he wants the Vampire to kill. If Peeker is really a Cabalist, then the last thing he wants is to end the Vampire's killing spree right now. I need to break off. There will be more but it might not be for a few hours. this is absolutely correct. i fucked up in outing gnarley. but we still have at least one more killer. so unless it is burby's town vig i kind of need to stay the course. plus you folks really need a damascus moment pretty damn soon. i sure as hell don't win with less folks and these farking zombies piling up. and gnarley ain't the nec since he was definitely block on N1 and 2.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 4, 2012 16:01:30 GMT -5
oops. apparantly not only can i shape shift but time travel as well.
squid what the fuck story are you going to concoct when guiri flips cabal?
just kind of curious. because i definitely see a nec sticking up for a vamp.
vote squid
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Post by special on Feb 4, 2012 16:25:00 GMT -5
btw, all you smart folks. guiri was cabal. And so all of those results were faked? And Idle has lied to us?
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 4, 2012 17:03:06 GMT -5
btw, all you smart folks. guiri was cabal. And so all of those results were faked? And Idle has lied to us? the truth is what the truth is. your conclusions based on statements and facts will have to be defined by you.
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Post by Nanook on Feb 4, 2012 17:41:01 GMT -5
See this? This is why I suggested we lynch peeker first. He spins the biggest pile of bullshit ever in an attempt to confuse, distract, and sow chaos.
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Post by special on Feb 4, 2012 17:47:29 GMT -5
And so all of those results were faked? And Idle has lied to us? the truth is what the truth is. your conclusions based on statements and facts will have to be defined by you. and yet you assert that I'm a witch, and as such, should have had full knowledge that Idle wasn't a witch. And, you'll notice, when he claimed, I unvoted him. Eventually. So, what is Idle? Undead? Wolf? Cabal? rogue Town?
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Post by special on Feb 4, 2012 17:50:15 GMT -5
See this? This is why I suggested we lynch peeker first. He spins the biggest pile of bullshit ever in an attempt to confuse, distract, and sow chaos. As long as he doesn't go all Gettysburg on us, we might get some useful information from him. Like I'm starting to believe that he might have found the Vampire. It's possible that he did and gave us that information before realizing that he wouldn't want us to lynch the Vampire. You know, sacrifice a greater evil to preserve his team for an extra turn.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Feb 4, 2012 18:39:27 GMT -5
As long as he doesn't go all Gettysburg on us, we might get some useful information from him. But we believe both Peeker and Silver Jan have the same information, right? So why not lynch the one with the known talent for obfuscation and spreading confusion? Vote peekercpa
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Post by special on Feb 4, 2012 19:08:59 GMT -5
As long as he doesn't go all Gettysburg on us, we might get some useful information from him. But we believe both Peeker and Silver Jan have the same information, right? So why not lynch the one with the known talent for obfuscation and spreading confusion? Vote peekercpaBecause he's more likely to talk and therefore slip. I have a feeling we might have heard the last of Silver Jan. Also, he's usually most confusing when he's trying not to be. When he's trying to be confusing, he's actually easier to understand.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 4, 2012 19:42:26 GMT -5
otay i'll play. since guir was/is (or was a tasty cigar) what in the world does that make idle?
man you folks hold me in low esteem.
i will set my clock and give you fifteen minutes to ask me any question you want. i will answer truthfully. one fucking caveat it has to be yes/no. and i will not reveal alignment. fair enough nookie. hey, i am trying to win and getting the lot of you pissed off sure as shit ain't going to advance that cause.
time starts NOW.
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