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Post by Drain Bead on Feb 10, 2012 8:41:51 GMT -5
D4, I got a result. Said result was that texcat killed septimus. Texcat was zombified on the morning of D3. septimus didn't wake up dead until the morning of D4. Are you saying a zombie killed septimus? I'm a Warlock. My enchant list is as follows: N1: peekerN2: septimusN3: BurbN4: Idle I've been shit-ass useless at Night. Sorry.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 10, 2012 10:43:24 GMT -5
I think my results also points to the Undead secret power. I'd bet that it's that the Vamp kill causes the target's corpse to be unable to be effected by other abilities. That is, no Coroner investigation, no Detective results(not that there would be ones anyways), and most importantly from the Undead standpoint, I'd be willing to bet no Vicar blessing. This seems like the type of secret power that would be useful for Undead, since it advances their win condition nicely, especially early where in this game we would have had basically no zombies if it didn't exist, and it helps sow confusion which also helps what is basically a SK. Except we've had no indication a vicar even exists in this game. And without that, this seems an underpowered secret power for the undead, and much more useful for the wolves. Plus, I think that there's only one vampire out there based on the small number of night kills. Not having a Vicar is a good balance for only one vampire. 6. Nanook claims texcat (lynched Day 2) killed Septimus (killed Night 3). If that is the case it is the Wolf secret power. If it is not, it's someone trying to cover up being a Wolf. Seriously, the Alpha Wolf can come back from the grave to kill someone? If that is the case, then I would bet on septimus being recruited not just killed. Or Nanook is the Omega and so came back as town to the witches, the real killer of Septimus is still alive, and Nanook had to find some way of justifying his false claim without an easy target to pin the kill on since the vamp isn't outed yet and the wolves are already down three so bussing another wolf might not be in the cards at this point.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 10, 2012 10:47:51 GMT -5
NETA: Actually, it wouldn't matter even if the vampire was outed, 'cause detective investigations are blocked by a vamp kill. So ignore that part.
Though it still raises the question as to why Nanook would come up with such an implausible story if it wasn't actually true. He's usually a better player than that, unless he's pulling a "so unbelievable they'll have to believe it" gambit.
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Post by Nanook on Feb 10, 2012 11:09:26 GMT -5
It could be that I'm wrong entirely about the Undead. Maybe there isn't a Vamp at all. No Vamp and the Wolf secret power being a one shot revenge kill(with possible recruitment?) when the Alpha dies would also make sense. I think more likely just a kill though, since Mhaye said he enchanted septimus. I guess we'll have a better idea when we see Mhaye's side.
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Post by Drain Bead on Feb 10, 2012 11:19:47 GMT -5
So is CIAS the only one who hasn't claimed yet?
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Post by CatInASuit on Feb 10, 2012 11:25:42 GMT -5
So is CIAS the only one who hasn't claimed yet? No, Colby11 and Sister Coyote haven't claimed. I don't think we will get answers from Sticks, hirka or deon. And we are likely to find out about septimus at Dusk, when he should have no problems identifying the lynched role. Although if it is Peeker, I doubt I would have problems guessing his side. On another note, I checked Pleonast's rules and all powers resolve simultaneously at Dusk/Dawn. This does raise the interesting scenario that septimus could identify his own role through his power as it runs simultaneously with his death. So my initial thought that he couldn't is completely incorrect. Bit of a mind screw, but there you go.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 10, 2012 11:31:05 GMT -5
A look at the various Role Claims Today:
Special Ed - claimed Witch I see no way to question this claim. If he and Idle are bluffing us, then they deserve to win.
Nanook - claimed Detective He claims that texcat killed septimus. texcat was lynched on Day 2 and turned into a Zombie on Night 2; septimus was killed on Night 3. If texcat killed septimus, then either it was a very-long-delayed Wolf Secret Power, or it is part of an Undead Secret Power. The former just seems implausible; if septmus had been klled on Night 2 I might buy it, but not a full Day/Night later. The latter seems possible as a Secret Power: the Undead can use risen Zombies for an extra kill. But if it was a single-use Power, why septimus on Night 3? He had claimed Coroner on Night 1...if the goal was to eliminate his ability to identify the dead, why wait 2 Nights to kill him? And if it was a multi-use Power, why has it been used only once? The 'obvious' answer is that Nanook is lying. Maybe he messed up the order of things and didn't realize there was an extra Day/Night in there. And if he's not the Detective, then he must be the Omega Wolf, unless there is yet another Secret Power that is interfering with the Withces' investigations.
Drain Bead - claimed Warlock This is a safe Claim if she's not Town, as there is no way to confirm or refute it.
colby11 - No claim His single post mentioned having computer issues. So did he simply forget to claim? Or does he have a reason for not claiming? We're likely not to find out Today.
Sister Coyote - No claim Sis has posted twice, dropped a vote for peeker, but has not claimed. Her aversion to Mass Claims is well-known, so this may be the explanation.
CatInaSuit - No claim CIAS is around today, and has given some detailed analysis, but has also chosen not to claim. He voted for peeker, and in Post 89 voted for all of the non-Absent Unclaimed players (Drain claimed one post later). So CIAS seems to thing that not caiming is Scummy, but that that rule doesn't apply to him.
vote CatInaSuit vote Nanook
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 10, 2012 11:35:43 GMT -5
So is CIAS the only one who hasn't claimed yet? No, Colby11 and Sister Coyote haven't claimed. I don't think we will get answers from Sticks, hirka or deon. And we are likely to find out about septimus at Dusk, when he should have no problems identifying the lynched role. Although if it is Peeker, I doubt I would have problems guessing his side. On another note, I checked Pleonast's rules and all powers resolve simultaneously at Dusk/Dawn. This does raise the interesting scenario that septimus could identify his own role through his power as it runs simultaneously with his death. So my initial thought that he couldn't is completely incorrect. Bit of a mind screw, but there you go. The simultaneous resolution of powers could explain why septimus received the report of his own death, which addresses one problem I had with his single post Today. The other problem is: septimus now knows the identity of his killer, and has neglected to reveal it. Is this a simple mistake of ommission on his part? Or was he perhaps not 'resurrected'? Merestil Haye claimed to be the Witch Doctor, but maybe he wasn't. MHaye claimed 4 minutes before Dawn, presumably so that he wouldn't be killed following his claim. Now maybe the Wolves or the Vampire were Johnny-on-the-spot and changed their orders, or maybe he had already been targeted. Or maybe he knew he was going to be dead in the Morning, and somehow was able to raise septimus, who came back to us as Undead. The only problem is: I can't figure out how such an ability would work. But as things stand now, I'm not prepared to trust anything more that septimus has to say until he comes up with a really good explanation for why he didn't tell us who killed him.
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Post by special on Feb 10, 2012 11:52:41 GMT -5
A look at the various Role Claims Today: Special Ed - claimed Witch I see no way to question this claim. If he and Idle are bluffing us, then they deserve to win. Nanook - claimed Detective He claims that texcat killed septimus. texcat was lynched on Day 2 and turned into a Zombie on Night 2; septimus was killed on Night 3. If texcat killed septimus, then either it was a very-long-delayed Wolf Secret Power, or it is part of an Undead Secret Power. The former just seems implausible; if septmus had been klled on Night 2 I might buy it, but not a full Day/Night later. The latter seems possible as a Secret Power: the Undead can use risen Zombies for an extra kill. But if it was a single-use Power, why septimus on Night 3? He had claimed Coroner on Night 1...if the goal was to eliminate his ability to identify the dead, why wait 2 Nights to kill him? And if it was a multi-use Power, why has it been used only once? The 'obvious' answer is that Nanook is lying. Maybe he messed up the order of things and didn't realize there was an extra Day/Night in there. And if he's not the Detective, then he must be the Omega Wolf, unless there is yet another Secret Power that is interfering with the Withces' investigations. Drain Bead - claimed Warlock This is a safe Claim if she's not Town, as there is no way to confirm or refute it. colby11 - No claim His single post mentioned having computer issues. So did he simply forget to claim? Or does he have a reason for not claiming? We're likely not to find out Today. Sister Coyote - No claim Sis has posted twice, dropped a vote for peeker, but has not claimed. Her aversion to Mass Claims is well-known, so this may be the explanation. CatInaSuit - No claim CIAS is around today, and has given some detailed analysis, but has also chosen not to claim. He voted for peeker, and in Post 89 voted for all of the non-Absent Unclaimed players (Drain claimed one post later). So CIAS seems to thing that not caiming is Scummy, but that that rule doesn't apply to him. vote CatInaSuit vote NanookYou voted for both players we investigated as Town
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Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 10, 2012 11:57:06 GMT -5
Sister Coyote - No claim Sis has posted twice, dropped a vote for peeker, but has not claimed. Her aversion to Mass Claims is well-known, so this may be the explanation. Well, yes, there is that, but also the simple fact that Thursday Nights are League Night and this is the first opportunity I've had to get online. (My scores were for Shit last night, too. sigh.) I'm another WarlockMy Night Enchant List looks oddly similar to Drain's, only: N1: MHayeN2: BillN3: IdleN4: EdWhich makes me just as useless, really. Or maybe he knew he was going to be dead in the Morning, and somehow was able to raise septimus, who came back to us as Undead. I'm confused. As I understand the Witch Doctor power, septimus would not be Undead. Did I miss something earlier in the thread?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 10, 2012 12:12:27 GMT -5
Or maybe he knew he was going to be dead in the Morning, and somehow was able to raise septimus, who came back to us as Undead. I'm confused. As I understand the Witch Doctor power, septimus would not be Undead. Did I miss something earlier in the thread? That would only be the case if MHaye was not actually a Witch Doctor, but instead an Undead using a Secret Power. I was thinking out loud, trying to figure out why septimus would have chosen not to reveal the identity of his killer, which according to the rules he should know if he was resurrected by the Witch Doctor.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 10, 2012 12:17:15 GMT -5
You voted for both players we investigated as Town Well....fuck me...my reading comprehension seems to have gone in the toilet Today, so that seems to be about par for the course, doesn't it? On the other hand...so what? You were fooled by guiri (or else you were right about guiri at the time, and his recruitment made you wrong later), so maybe you're wrong about one of these as well. Of course, it would be nice and tidy if Pollux were the Omega Wolf (thus explaining the second kill on Night 3), which means that Nanook and CIAS are both Town, unless there is another Secret Power in play altering investigation results. And I see that we now have two Warlock claims. I'm inclined to think that one of them is false. Given the relative lack of Night Kills, I don't see a need for two Warlocks. For the moment... unvote allI'll be back later.
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Post by Drain Bead on Feb 10, 2012 13:08:07 GMT -5
Vote: Sister Coyote
I sincerely doubt that there are two Warlocks, so....
Also, if you're a Warlock, you enchant Idle N4. End of story.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 10, 2012 13:43:17 GMT -5
So you say.
And, obviously, I disagree; I had my suspicions about Ed's role and went with them on the theory that any NK would avoid Idle and go for an ostensibly more "vulnerable" target.
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Post by special on Feb 10, 2012 13:44:24 GMT -5
You voted for both players we investigated as Town Well....fuck me...my reading comprehension seems to have gone in the toilet Today, so that seems to be about par for the course, doesn't it? On the other hand...so what? You were fooled by guiri (or else you were right about guiri at the time, and his recruitment made you wrong later), so maybe you're wrong about one of these as well. Of course, it would be nice and tidy if Pollux were the Omega Wolf (thus explaining the second kill on Night 3), which means that Nanook and CIAS are both Town, unless there is another Secret Power in play altering investigation results. And I see that we now have two Warlock claims. I'm inclined to think that one of them is false. Given the relative lack of Night Kills, I don't see a need for two Warlocks. For the moment... unvote allI'll be back later. As has been previously stated, Pollux investigated as Wolf, and so is unlikely to be Omega unless someone is really messing with our investigations.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 10, 2012 18:03:22 GMT -5
Just for the record, if I think ANYONE is the Omega Wolf, I think Catinasuit is.
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Feb 10, 2012 22:46:54 GMT -5
Just for the record, if I think ANYONE is the Omega Wolf, I think Catinasuit is. Any reason? I mean, other than general distrust of Cat. I'm totally down with that.
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Post by special on Feb 10, 2012 22:58:05 GMT -5
Just for the record, if I think ANYONE is the Omega Wolf, I think Catinasuit is. Any reason? I mean, other than general distrust of Cat. I'm totally down with that. Because he doesn't agree with who I think is Wolfe *evil eye*
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Feb 11, 2012 0:34:43 GMT -5
Just for the record, if I think ANYONE is the Omega Wolf, I think Catinasuit is. Any reason? I mean, other than general distrust of Cat. I'm totally down with that. That. Majorly that. But if you want specific reasons, he's been mistrustful of me being a Witch all game, although I don't see any good reason for that mistrust to have been there in the first place. Even when it came down to Pollux claiming Witch over me, he (CIAS) had believed more Pollux's being a Witch than I was. Since you all know he was a Wolf now, where's the "Gee, Idle, I was wrong. That would have been a mistake to lynch you!", hm? But it's not personal and not just about him mistrusting me. I think he (as the Omega Wolf) probably believed my Witch claim from the beginning and figured if he proclaimed enough in game that he thought I was lying that we'd investigate him....at least, my guess is that's what he was hoping for.... so when we did (and we did), we'd get the read as TOWN and tell everyone else in the game that. Then all CIAS would have to do is claim to be a Town Role when the time came. Oh, and add this to all the facts: CIAS hasn't claimed yet. Could it be because he wants everyone else to go ahead of him so he can see what's all in the game and choose one that nobody else has said? Very easy for the Omega Wolf to do that. So all that being said, there's a chance of course that CIAS isn't it...but I've been mighty suspicious of him all game, so I think if anyone is the Omega Wolf, CIAS is definitely in the running. When I put all of these points together, I get what looks to be like a pretty sneaky, scummy person. Other thoughts: I agree that one of the Warlock's may be lying. The only other two people I have suspicions of, at the moment, are Suburban Plankton and Hoopy Frood...two people in the huge mason mishmash.
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Post by Drain Bead on Feb 11, 2012 9:24:41 GMT -5
What's funny is that I thought Sister Coyote was the other witch. She seemed a bit more under the radar than usual. I had ruled out Ed because he voted for Idle early on Day One. Turned out to be a nice move because it kept him alive this long. But when Sis claimed the same role I had, I began to realize that her under-the-radar was lurking Scum. I'm guessing she's either Wolf or Necro.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Feb 11, 2012 20:25:55 GMT -5
Welp.
There are far too many masons in this game and far too many warlocks. I am a Warlock as well. Unfortunately, I have been a faulty player and have not used my powers yet this game.
Vote: peeker
Unless I have been misled, he claims to be cabal? That is reason enough for me. I cannot guess who the vampires or necromancer(s?) may be so unless someone else has a lightbulb moment, I am forced to disregard them for the moment.
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Feb 11, 2012 21:51:44 GMT -5
Great. In addition to our Mason clusterfrag, we now have a Warlock clusterfrag.
I tend to think that sifting through the Warlocks is going to be a much more fruitful endeavor, though. How can you claim third Warlock, but also claim not to have done anything, Stickler? That's about as weaksauce as anything I've seen in a game yet.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Feb 11, 2012 22:14:39 GMT -5
Because I haven't been here. I've been a weaksauce player this game.
(And even if I had been, it goes against what little moral code I have to use role powers without posting in the appropriate day.)
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Post by septimus on Feb 12, 2012 4:29:00 GMT -5
I and my family have just returned from a very relaxing weekend. (Perhaps I should have checked in via Internet cafe during that time, but kids and I have all become Internet-aholics so a total break from computer was refreshing.) First I'll answer questions: 1. Coroner's report on pollux was "Werewolf." Had he been Omega, I'd have been so informed. 2. As Nanook stated, it was texcat who killed me. Blame Pleo for the delay in reporting: Here are the time-stamps on my three most recent PM's from Pleo: Re: Night Three results Pleonast Feb 10, 2012, 3:53am Night Four results Pleonast Feb 10, 2012, 3:04am Night Three results Pleonast Feb 3, 2012, 3:03am Pleo had forgotten to name my killer in his Night 3 results PM to me. I stayed awake Day 5 to make my single post, but by the time this 3:53am PM came I was abed resting for our RealLife family excursion. IIRC, the Alpha Wolf had a special Kill in C4. Perhaps in this game the Alpha Wolf has a special Kill available even when he's dead. I agree that Lynching the Necromancer must be our highest priority right now. But who is it? If our policy is NOT to Lynch Lurkers, mightn't Lurking be a logical way for Necromancer to try to stay alive? Because I haven't been here. I've been a weaksauce player this game. (And even if I had been, it goes against what little moral code I have to use role powers without posting in the appropriate day.) peeker made a similar statement. Is it generally accepted that for someone active on Scum boards or with PM's to be absent from the game thread is unethical? I've just skimmed Day 5 and have a lot of thinking to do, but for the present I'm happy to place votes on Lurkers and near Lurkers: Vote: hirkatbawaVote: deonVote: Sister CoyoteVote: colby11
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Post by BillMc on Feb 12, 2012 4:43:19 GMT -5
So we now also have IS showing up and also claiming warlock.
So we have:
Known Dead texcat - Wolf - Alpha Wolf mahaloth - Wolf - Werewolf Pollux Oil - Wolf scathach - Town - Witch JustBeingGinger - Town - Freemason guiri - Cabal Recruit
Unknown Dead Silver Jan - suspected Cabal Merestil Haye - suspected Witchdoctor
The Undead mahaloth - Lynched Day One - Zombified Night One - Wolf - Werewolf texcat - Lynched Day Two - Zombified Night Two - Wolf - Alpha Wolf JustBeingGinger - Killed Night One - Zombified Night Three - Town - Freemason scathach - Killed Night Two - Town - Witch - Zombified Night Four
Claims Hoopy Frood - Freemason BillMc - Freemason Suburban Plankton - Freemason Boozahol Squid - Freemason gnarlycharlie - Freemason
peekercpa - Cabal
Idle Thoughts - Witch Special Ed - Witch
septimus - Coroner Nanook - Detective
Drain Bead - Warlock Sister Coyote - Warlock Inner Stickler - Warlock
Unknown CatinASuit colby11 hirkatbawa (MIA) deon (MIA)
Town - need wolves and undead dead. And all the cabal dead or two or more witches alive. So if we believe the witch claims, the town can ignore the cabal as they don't need them dead to win. At the moment, while there are two witches alive, having the cabal alive is to the town's advantage as it adds to numerical superiority over the Wolves and the Undead.
Wolves - In previous games there were 4-6 wolves - we have 3 dead wolves - so at worst there are probably no more than 3 wolves left - so they are nowhere near winning by numerical superiority
Undead - win by numbers - 4 undead + necromancer at present. Plus any vampires if they exist. So 5+?. The undead are the only faction that is a serious threat to town at this time.
Cabal - they appear to have some recruitment power - 1 confirmed dead recruit; Peeker has claimed cabal, and Jan appears to be on the same team as Peeker - tho has also claimed Freemason. But while there are two witches alive, the Cabal cannot win, and are no threat to town.
MIA - We could handshake with hirkatbawa & deon to see if they are freemasons, but given the accuracy of the handshake is questionable it may not add a lot of value. If they are non-town, then it is to the benefit of the non-town factions to keep them alive as long as possible.
So at this point, I cannot see any real benefit in lynching a claimed cabalist (peeker) (well apart from the bird in the hand argument) as the cabal are no threat to town at this point.
If the Warlocks are truthful, then the town initially has access to 4 protections (3 from warlocks, 1 from the witches) which given the apparent lack of killing roles, seems imbalanced. So most likely 1 or more of the Warlocks is not being truthful.
So I think there is more information to be gained from lynching a warlock claimee
vote: sister coyote vote: drain vote: innerstickler
or from those who have declined, or delayed claiming
vote: CatinASuit vote: colby11
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Post by Drain Bead on Feb 12, 2012 8:08:59 GMT -5
Vote: Inner Stickler
At least it's relatively transparent who the real Warlock is. One "guessed" who the non-outed Witch was, even though that person was partly responsible for the Witch having to claim on Day One. Obviously Ed is the third Witch, but that wasn't at all apparent at the time Sis claimed to have protected him. And Inner lurks all game and shows up to claim Warlock with no Night actions? Sure.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 12, 2012 11:47:55 GMT -5
peeker made a similar statement. Is it generally accepted that for someone active on Scum boards or with PM's to be absent from the game thread is unethical? <snipped> well, in a game that lying and misdirection are actually expected i think "unethical" might be a little strong. however, it is in bad form, at least imho. however, lurking is a valid strategy it's just one that sucks big donkey dicks. i think it makes the game less fun and the reason i play this game is to have fun and try to figure shit out. not just win.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Feb 12, 2012 13:50:01 GMT -5
Bill, the warlock's enchantment is not a protection, it's an avengement. I don't know about 3 warlocks but 2 warlocks doesn't strike me as being too many given the high likelihood of their ineffectiveness.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2012 16:51:02 GMT -5
Bill, the warlock's enchantment is not a protection, it's an avengement. I don't know about 3 warlocks but 2 warlocks doesn't strike me as being too many given the high likelihood of their ineffectiveness. Except for it seems way too overpowered against the wolves. Especially if their secret power is to either profane a corpse or get one retaliatory kill. Doesn't seem like a lot of compensation for having a high chance of dying to a warlock curse on top of the dying when trying to kill a vamp thing. I'd say two warlocks is pushing it as it is.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 12, 2012 17:00:53 GMT -5
I'm still trying to figure out, though, that if the wolves get a retaliatory/delayed kill, and the vamp is the one profaning corpses, how that is remotely useful to a vamp.
But septimus confirms nanook's story, so somehow a wolf apparently killed from the grave. Unless the vampire has the ability to detect as someone else as a killer to the detective. But then, why choose a dead role?
And Bill, if you really want to lynch a warlock, why are you voting all 3? It's not going to end up in one getting lynch, and it's probably a reasonable bet that at least one of them is telling the truth, though I can't see all three of them doing so.
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