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Post by Pleonast on Aug 20, 2013 12:40:45 GMT -5
I see that Cookies, Coyote and KidV all have good participation, but no actual vote. I'll vote when I'm damn good and ready and not a moment before, pleo, you've played with me often enough to know that. And you know that I'll vote for who I please. unvote Cookiesvote SisterCoyote for not being good and ready to put a vote down.
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Post by texcat on Aug 20, 2013 12:45:27 GMT -5
I absolutely agree with Pleo and Para, voting is good and a reluctance to vote is scummy. Scum does not want to vote. Just look what has happened to the voters. They have immediately been suspected for their votes, and most have received votes. Fruit mentioned earlier that some places he plays, not voting early is seen as a scum tell. I think that makes sense.
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Post by BillMc on Aug 20, 2013 13:40:55 GMT -5
Maybe swam has a jester role? Or maybe he gains something by posting in haiku, as opposed to what he claimed is a self imposed punishment I am completely confused on who to vote for. I want to keep my vote, but with no peeks around, I can't justify it Unvote: TexcatWho to vote for? I want to vote for Swammer because of their haiku posting style.... But it is just a veil for something, I can feel it.... Maybe a bomb role? Or a jester? Because it seems a tad bit off of left field for this I find it interesting that you felt that you needed to restate both the haiku and jester comments, and in light of your prior "please communicate with me" and the "completely confused" comment, your play just seems "off" Vote: Colby
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Post by Sister Coyote on Aug 20, 2013 13:55:00 GMT -5
I didn't say I was reluctant to vote. I said I won't be pressured to vote.
A subtle difference, but an important one.
Between voting Texcat for voting peeker for not being around, and then unvoting her because peek hasn't shown (which, ultimately, should make no difference as to the validity or not of her original vote), and then the wishy-washiness of his who-to-vote-next schtick, I'm not liking colby's play at the moment.
Vote: vote: Colby11
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Post by patricia on Aug 20, 2013 14:28:30 GMT -5
I always have a hard time with a first day vote - I have just reread the whole thread and the only small thing I see as scummy is TexCat vote on Peek - which she has now changed to Jan. I see both of her votes to be on experienced players so that may be a scum idea to vote off the best players today as town has no information so they can take that advantage to lynch a player that may see them for what they are given the time to do so.
Yeah, that still all I got
Vote: texcat
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Post by Mahaloth on Aug 20, 2013 15:44:04 GMT -5
The last time I saw someone continually changing their vote to people who were "too quiet" it was a scum trying to vote without being questioned for the reasoning. I didn't like it then and I don't like it now so Vote: PleonastI agree entirely. Unless Pleo is suggesting a lynch the lurker strategy, I find these kind of votes suspicious. I do see he has changed his vote now, though, so I'll avoid voting for him for it for now. I always have a hard time with a first day vote - I have just reread the whole thread and the only small thing I see as scummy is TexCat vote on Peek - which she has now changed to Jan. I see both of her votes to be on experienced players so that may be a scum idea to vote off the best players today as town has no information so they can take that advantage to lynch a player that may see them for what they are given the time to do so. Yeah, that still all I got Vote: texcat 1. I'm getting tired of the whole "it's so hard to decide on Day One" thing. It always strikes me as a way to defend a vote in case the person turns out to be town. 2. However, I agree with your main point about texcat and, with no qualifying how hard this is on Day One, I'll vote the same as you for now. vote texcat
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Post by texcat on Aug 20, 2013 16:22:50 GMT -5
I always have a hard time with a first day vote - I have just reread the whole thread and the only small thing I see as scummy is TexCat vote on Peek - which she has now changed to Jan. I see both of her votes to be on experienced players so that may be a scum idea to vote off the best players today as town has no information so they can take that advantage to lynch a player that may see them for what they are given the time to do so. Yeah, that still all I got Vote: texcat Hmmm. I'm not sure who voted for Jan, but my vote is still on peeker. I don't like this vote, but even more I don't like mahaloth' s bandwagon of this vote. He's been around and posting, but didn't vote until there was some pressure to do so. And then he bandwagoned a bad vote. Unvote: peeker Vote: mahaloth
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Post by Pleonast on Aug 20, 2013 16:29:08 GMT -5
I find it interesting that you felt that you needed to restate both the haiku and jester comments, and in light of your prior "please communicate with me" and the "completely confused" comment, your play just seems "off" Vote: ColbyAre you voting Colby because you think they're a Jester or because you think they're scum trying to plant the Jester meme on another player? Between voting Texcat for voting peeker for not being around, and then unvoting her because peek hasn't shown (which, ultimately, should make no difference as to the validity or not of her original vote), and then the wishy-washiness of his who-to-vote-next schtick, I'm not liking colby's play at the moment. Vote: vote: Colby11 unvote SisterCoyoteI'm still looking askance at Cookies and KidV. Being the vote leader, KidV need to be more proactive and make a case on someone. vote KidV for not voting and otherwise disappearing when under pressure. I always have a hard time with a first day vote - I have just reread the whole thread and the only small thing I see as scummy is TexCat vote on Peek - which she has now changed to Jan. I see both of her votes to be on experienced players so that may be a scum idea to vote off the best players today as town has no information so they can take that advantage to lynch a player that may see them for what they are given the time to do so. Yeah, that still all I got Vote: texcat Is skimming a scumtell?
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Aug 20, 2013 16:40:17 GMT -5
FruitAndGarbage I admit that my first impressions of you are good. I would value your opinion, in general over conscious attempts in brevity. As you're probably gathering is a bit of a trend for me and my opinions, I think that ultimately they are a distraction. I don't very much like that swammerdami is posting in haiku, because it makes his posts more difficult to parse, it makes it harder for him to express cogent and convincing points, and it obfuscates what might otherwise be good clues to his alignment and intentions. However, I didn't mention any of that or confront him about it because what I dislike more is the day's discussion being eaten by trivialities. Look at the sheer volume of posts generated by his decision to post in haiku that don't really advance the scumhunt at all: we know it's not game-related since the mod said as much and this isn't a bastard game (unless it's the super secret DOUBLE bastard game where the bastardry is in not telling us it is one o: ), so any speculation on it beyond "It makes me think you're hiding something" is pretty much unhelpful. I'd encourage anyone who thinks it's a way for him to not make scum-slips to vote for him and say as much, but beyond that, what's there to say? We're focusing on something where the only real conversation that can be generated is "I think it's silly" "I don't" "v0v", when there are more salient things to discuss. To wit: Colby11: Very dubious play thus far! His posts, in order, amount to "I won't speculate on the setup", "I'm confused and nobody's suspicious", voting for someone with a reasonable (if misguided in my opinion) voting strategy, justifying his vote, empty speculation, and unvoting for no clearly parseable reason then more speculation about the setup and tunneling in on the haiku thing. What strikes me most here is his refusal to commit to anything: as has been pointed out, town plays (or should play) by voting and saying what they think, while scum plays in the way to best minimize suspicion on themselves. Evasiveness and the tendency to drop things that are clearly not popular ideas or opinions are pretty big hallmarks of scum play, especially nervous scum that thinks they might be a liability to the team. KidVermicious and my Vote Thereupon: KidV has been comparatively active in the game – or at least moreso than our fair number of lurkish players – but has thus far actually not contributed anything to it. As intimated, my original vote was made primarily on gut feeling: he simply seemed the most suspicious out of anyone who had posted at the time, and I wanted to generate some responses. Since then, though, everything he's said has been primarily defensive rather than proactive in nature, which is why I'm still happy with my vote where it is for the moment. Overjustification and a lack of contribution are the other end of the spectrum from twitchy, nervous scum play, and make me equally uncomfortable... Of course, they're also pretty commonly seen in self-confident townies, so I'm not really married to the vote yet. It's just the best of several options. texcat: Actually, I personally don't think anything she's done yet has been particularly suspicious, but she's definitely at the forefront of one of our current major discussions. The vote on someone not present at all isn't itself scummy to me: lurkers are definitely a liability, and it's easy to let them get away with too much or if they're town to weaken the side by their absence and inability to vote; I just don't think day one is the best time to deal with it, especially when to get the most out of day two, we need as many interactions as possible to look back on. If we lynch someone who doesn't say anything on day one, even if they're scum, what do we go off of on day two? I don't like it, but it's just a play difference rather than a scumtell. Same as with all the people who disagree with me on third-party strategy. billmc: Terse and defensive. What else is there to say? I can definitely see a world in which he's just one of those players who doesn't like day one (heck, some games that's me!), but I can also see one in which he's tight-lipped because he doesn't want anything coming back to haunt him next morning. I'd like to get a response from him about existing votes and players' reasonings, but it's a free country maaan. What makes me lean a little more to the side of suspicion than apathy is that much of what he has said has just been to criticize or mock Pleonast's play and proactivity; since Pleo has been one of the most contributing players in the game so far (even discounting the weird breadcrumbs), that strikes me as a bit off. But I dunno, I've never played with anyone here before. For all I know this is typical of both of them. Look at all those words, haha. I guess that's the other half of my answer to how I feel about forced brevity! Discussion is good, votes are better. We should all do a lot of both!
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Post by Mahaloth on Aug 20, 2013 17:14:20 GMT -5
I'm not bandwagoning, I'm agreeing. Do you even have a bandwagon yet?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Aug 20, 2013 18:14:37 GMT -5
lurkers are definitely a liability, and it's easy to let them get away with too much or if they're town to weaken the side by their absence and inability to vote; I just don't think day one is the best time to deal with it, especially when to get the most out of day two, we need as many interactions as possible to look back on. Not about texcat but in general: I've seen Town lose games because of inactive Town players. I'm not sure when the best time is to deal with it: Day One, when we'll have the interactions of the people around the Quiet One to examine, or Day Four when we may have Scum dead to rights, or Day Seven when the inactive might be the stone that drags Town under.
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Post by texcat on Aug 20, 2013 18:29:02 GMT -5
I'm not bandwagoning, I'm agreeing. Do you even have a bandwagon yet? And did you bother to see that most of the stuff that Patricia said about me was not true. Is that the stuff you are agreeing with?
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Post by patricia on Aug 20, 2013 20:58:16 GMT -5
Texcat - I did see that you never changed your vote off of Peek - After I got to a computer I saw that Jan had voted for you not the other way around. That what I get you trying to play on my phone. My vote and reason still stands for now - in less another case is made that seems more valid. But sorry for the error in my last post.
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Post by FruitAndGarbage on Aug 20, 2013 22:20:40 GMT -5
Not about texcat but in general: I've seen Town lose games because of inactive Town players. I'm not sure when the best time is to deal with it: Day One, when we'll have the interactions of the people around the Quiet One to examine, or Day Four when we may have Scum dead to rights, or Day Seven when the inactive might be the stone that drags Town under. I've seen the same thing, yeah. It's a hard balancing act, finding a time it's appropriate, but I generally think the time to start is around day three or four: the town still has the numbers – usually – to take care of an inactive without potentially letting scum control the vote and isn't so pressed for time that the one missing player is generally going to be a death sentence. But it's all context-sensitive, and totally unique to the individual game! I just don't think it's very productive early on, especially in a situation like this one where it's entirely possible the "lurker" in question is just out for a few days with life problems or something, rather than having abandoned the game. That goes double when players that go awol after the replacement deadline get modkilled, as I seem to recall storyteller saying.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Aug 20, 2013 22:35:39 GMT -5
I'm getting tired of the whole "it's so hard to decide on Day One" thing. It always strikes me as a way to defend a vote in case the person turns out to be town. This made me laugh. It is actually and legitimately hard to decide on Day One in the vast majority of games. I get how people stating the obvious can be annoying. But getting annoyed at people who are stating something that is true and letting that annoyance influence your analysis regarding those who annoy you...is funny. And I know it is funny, because there is a little bit of honesty in the best comedy, because I'm going to Vote Swammer because the haikus are an annoying distraction.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Aug 20, 2013 23:26:26 GMT -5
I'm getting tired of the whole "it's so hard to decide on Day One" thing. It always strikes me as a way to defend a vote in case the person turns out to be town. This made me laugh. It is actually and legitimately hard to decide on Day One in the vast majority of games. I get how people stating the obvious can be annoying. But getting annoyed at people who are stating something that is true and letting that annoyance influence your analysis regarding those who annoy you...is funny. And I know it is funny, because there is a little bit of honesty in the best comedy, because I'm going to Vote Swammer because the haikus are an annoying distraction.
But, I dare say you would be in favor of my outline style posts.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Aug 20, 2013 23:54:05 GMT -5
I'm willing to be convinced. You could give it a try in a post where you unvote me.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Aug 21, 2013 0:33:02 GMT -5
Well, I apologize that I feel like the Swammer case stinks to me like either someone trying something new (which they claimed), or there is an alternative motive.
If you wish for me to stick to a certain case, well I'm not going to do that. I plan on looking at any and all possibilities right now. No particular case sticks out to me as "Hey, this person makes a lot of sense." It all reeks of easy cases that I don't see. Of course, that is all in your perspective. I'm just giving mine.
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Post by Silver Jan on Aug 21, 2013 1:26:04 GMT -5
Well, I apologize that I feel like the Swammer case stinks to me like either someone trying something new (which they claimed), or there is an alternative motive. If you wish for me to stick to a certain case, well I'm not going to do that. I plan on looking at any and all possibilities right now. No particular case sticks out to me as "Hey, this person makes a lot of sense." It all reeks of easy cases that I don't see. Of course, that is all in your perspective. I'm just giving mine. But not so long ago you wanted to vote for him because of his posting style and now you don't like the case against him. Well, which is it?
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Aug 21, 2013 3:21:14 GMT -5
I see that Cookies, Coyote and KidV all have good participation, but no actual vote. I'll vote when I'm damn good and ready and not a moment before, pleo, you've played with me often enough to know that. Of course, then I end up unvoting and revoting ninetybillion times anyway, but that's as may be. I'm usually a late voter on Day One, and faster from there. i also tend to take my time on D1. the rest of the Days have no pattern. i've voted last to break ties and i've voted first right after the Dawn color. Maybe swam has a jester role? Or maybe he gains something by posting in haiku, as opposed to what he claimed is a self imposed punishment I am completely confused on who to vote for. I want to keep my vote, but with no peeks around, I can't justify it Unvote: TexcatWho to vote for? I want to vote for Swammer because of their haiku posting style.... But it is just a veil for something, I can feel it.... Maybe a bomb role? Or a jester? Because it seems a tad bit off of left field for this I find it interesting that you felt that you needed to restate both the haiku and jester comments, and in light of your prior "please communicate with me" and the "completely confused" comment, your play just seems "off" Vote: Colbyi've felt the same way about Colby the past games but he's always come up town. it's a null tell for me. I'm getting tired of the whole "it's so hard to decide on Day One" thing. It always strikes me as a way to defend a vote in case the person turns out to be town. This made me laugh. It is actually and legitimately hard to decide on Day One in the vast majority of games. I get how people stating the obvious can be annoying. But getting annoyed at people who are stating something that is true and letting that annoyance influence your analysis regarding those who annoy you...is funny. And I know it is funny, because there is a little bit of honesty in the best comedy, because I'm going to Vote Swammer because the haikus are an annoying distraction.
this is just silly. it's an off-vote when at this point i don't think anyone thinks he'll be lynched toDay. i don't think you do either. Vote: Cookies
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Aug 21, 2013 4:33:49 GMT -5
by the way, hetermetrus would be swammi. hetermetrus would be an amalgam of swammi and septimus, his former name.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Aug 21, 2013 5:54:12 GMT -5
Mod, can we get a vote count?
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Post by scáthach on Aug 21, 2013 7:11:35 GMT -5
I'm getting tired of the whole "it's so hard to decide on Day One" thing. It always strikes me as a way to defend a vote in case the person turns out to be town. This made me laugh. It is actually and legitimately hard to decide on Day One in the vast majority of games. I get how people stating the obvious can be annoying. But getting annoyed at people who are stating something that is true and letting that annoyance influence your analysis regarding those who annoy you...is funny. And I know it is funny, because there is a little bit of honesty in the best comedy, because I'm going to Vote Swammer because the haikus are an annoying distraction.
10 posts today, most of them about metagame and rules clarifications. And then you avoid talking about any of the real lynch candidates to place a joke(?) vote on swammerdami for his posting style? Explicitly his posting style too, not even that you think it makes him scummy, just that you find it annoying. Unvote: KidV Vote: Cometothedarksidewehavecookies
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Aug 21, 2013 7:22:31 GMT -5
It wasn't a joke vote. I just happened to tell a joke while voting. I'm complex like that. I, like others have said, will vote where I please and not just because someone is or isn't who anyone else considers a 'real' lynch candidate.
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Post by swammerdami on Aug 21, 2013 8:22:00 GMT -5
And I know it is funny, because there is a little bit of honesty in the best comedy, because I'm going to Vote Swammer because the haikus are an annoying distraction. It wasn't a joke vote. I just happened to tell a joke while voting. I'm complex like that. Let me get this straight. Your explaining's just a joke.Mine are hard to read?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Aug 21, 2013 9:14:50 GMT -5
VOTE COUNT – DAY ONE (WEDNESDAY) KidVermicious (3)* – FruitandGarbage, swammerdami, Pleonast …Cookies (3) – Meeko, gnarlycharly, scathach Texcat (3) – silverjan, patricia, mahaloth Pleonast (2) – dizzymrslizzy, Jaade Colby11 (2) – BillMc, Sister Coyote Paranoia (1) – abstain Meeko (1) – Paranoia Mahaloth (1) – texcat Swammerdami (1) - …Cookies
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* Paranoia’s vote on KidV, at 8:35 on Aug 19, does not count as Paranoia already had an active vote at that time and did not unvote. Please note that there are no powers which will directly affect the vote count; if the vote count appears not to match what has happened, it’s because I’ve made a mistake in the counting, not because any power has intervened.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Aug 21, 2013 9:44:38 GMT -5
Well, I apologize that I feel like the Swammer case stinks to me like either someone trying something new (which they claimed), or there is an alternative motive. If you wish for me to stick to a certain case, well I'm not going to do that. I plan on looking at any and all possibilities right now. No particular case sticks out to me as "Hey, this person makes a lot of sense." It all reeks of easy cases that I don't see. Of course, that is all in your perspective. I'm just giving mine. But not so long ago you wanted to vote for him because of his posting style and now you don't like the case against him. Well, which is it? I am having second thoughts about voting him just for posting in haiku. Doesn't seem like a good enough reasoning, and it smells fishy. With votes all over the place, it's apparent that no one knows who to vote for.... Obviously I need to vote for someone pretty quick, since EOD is soon, I think....
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Post by scáthach on Aug 21, 2013 10:21:09 GMT -5
It wasn't a joke vote. I just happened to tell a joke while voting. I'm complex like that. I, like others have said, will vote where I please and not just because someone is or isn't who anyone else considers a 'real' lynch candidate. Yes, just as I am free to vote you for it.
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Post by Silver Jan on Aug 21, 2013 10:37:39 GMT -5
But not so long ago you wanted to vote for him because of his posting style and now you don't like the case against him. Well, which is it? I am having second thoughts about voting him just for posting in haiku. Doesn't seem like a good enough reasoning, and it smells fishy. With votes all over the place, it's apparent that no one knows who to vote for.... Obviously I need to vote for someone pretty quick, since EOD is soon, I think.... I'm not actually disagreeing with you, I just wanted to know why you first wanted to vote for him but don't like the votes on him, that's all. I just find it annoying that he wants to post like that. I was going to take my vote off Texcat but now she has a one off on Mahaloth for "bandwagoning" on a bad vote. I think that was quite a cheeky thing for her to say after her vote on Peeks. I do wish he had shown up though because I am also getting a bit tired of the lynch the loud and let the lurkers slip by. Not only is lurking bad for Town, it is bad for the game as a whole, can you imagine if all the talkers have been lynched and NK'd and no one speaks for days on end.
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Post by KidV on Aug 21, 2013 11:49:19 GMT -5
vote KidV for not voting and otherwise disappearing when under pressure. KidV has disappeared because I'm fucking flabbergasted at the votes I'm drawing. I'm used to Septimus/Swammerdami being a little unhinged, but I'm amazed that anybody can look at his interaction with me and decide that I'm the one that looks scummy enough to vote for. Anyway, I can't defend against "ooh that seems weird", and every time I try I draw another vote from somebody else, so fuck it. I'm done. If I happen to still be alive Day Two, great, I'm come play then. But screw SD for holding such a retarded grudge, screw the rest of you lazy voters that piled on, and the screw any of the rest of you that haven't called them out for shitty voting (at least one of you made a halfhearted attempt at it, so unscrew you, whoever you are).
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