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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:01:33 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on May 5, 2009 12:01:33 GMT -5
YOU DON'T LYNCH CLAIMED POWER ROLES ON DAY 1! It's actually kind of a rule. Just like you don't lynch uncounterd masons. Seriously. I can't believe I even have to say this to anyone in this game. unvote paul
vote Inner SticklerThen I expect to see you unvote me as I am a town investigator.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:05:02 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 12:05:02 GMT -5
a town investigator damn
unvote Inner Stickler
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:10:28 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 12:10:28 GMT -5
Any more information from your role, male or female IS?
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:13:48 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 5, 2009 12:13:48 GMT -5
Pleo, people are off Pollux because he has basically claimed some sort of mason and AH has claimed the same. That's the thing, it's not a Mason claim. The essential part of a Mason role is being able to confirm another player is Town. These Groupies can do no such thing.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:16:37 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 5, 2009 12:16:37 GMT -5
Any more information from your role, male or female IS? Inner Stickler, please don't reveal anymore information toDay.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:17:20 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 5, 2009 12:17:20 GMT -5
Any more information from your role, male or female IS? You know what, zlw was on the edge before and this fishing is completely over the line. unvotevote zlwStickler has claimed investigator. He now has to provide us with accurate information or we lynch him. The details are not important.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:17:52 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 12:17:52 GMT -5
Any more information from your role, male or female IS? Inner Stickler, please don't reveal anymore information toDay. Wrong, he needs to answer male or female it is in the towns best interest.
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Merestil Haye
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:17:58 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 5, 2009 12:17:58 GMT -5
Unvote: Inner Stickler
NAF's rule may have exceptions (as most Mafia rules do) but lynching a claimed Investigator is one of the bigger mistakes one can make (absent good evidence that they are lying of course).
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:20:41 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 5, 2009 12:20:41 GMT -5
Unvote: IS
So you are town, you just didn't learn anything from TL's game. Good to know.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:21:10 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on May 5, 2009 12:21:10 GMT -5
I think I see why zlw is asking and I'll take the risk. Male.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:21:34 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 12:21:34 GMT -5
He is an investigator, please unvote me, and him.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:21:42 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 5, 2009 12:21:42 GMT -5
Going back to Paul as there isn't much time and he is still the person I find scummiest
Vote: Paul
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:23:01 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 5, 2009 12:23:01 GMT -5
He is an investigator, please unvote me, and him. Are you fucking kidding me with this magic bag shit Zach?
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:23:26 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 12:23:26 GMT -5
And IS if you have any doubt about me, look at this post. I think I left enough clues..... That's fine Pleonast, I find most reasons to lynch someone Day 1 to be weak as hell. Short of a player coming out saying "I'm scum" the best you can go on is a hunch, if that results in a mislynch it is still better than going random and getting the same mislynch. It's not like my vote is an anchor dragging SisC down, it was simply a hunch that can be taken right away if something better comes along. Co-operation amongst town is the key in this game right? I stated my case, she answered, you stood up and said it was flimsy as well. If I feel something more cement I will move my vote.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:25:02 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on May 5, 2009 12:25:02 GMT -5
[/color] So you are town, you just didn't learn anything from TL's game. Good to know.[/quote]I was pissed as hell that we lynched a claimed role in the Ragnarok game. I didn't want to vote for Sister Coyote but at the time it seemed like it was me or her and I thought it would be better for a nilla townie to go down than an investigator. Unvote: Sister Coyote
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:42:18 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 12:42:18 GMT -5
Peaches Christ! Unvote: Inner Stickler
Pleonast, I'm treating Pollux and Almost Human as claimed masons. They are weaker in that they have not been explicitly told that the other is Town, but the circumstances indicate higher likelihood of Townness than scumness. Furthermore they serve as placeholders for the "mason" slot in the game. So far no one has counter claimed, this could be for many reasons including: - Pollux and Almost Human are in the 'mason' group for this game - The is no mason group for this game - There is a mason group, but they have opted not to counter claim. I'm treating Pollux and Almost Human as claimed masons for now. I don't think that is unreasonable.
zlw and Inner Stickler have somewhat hand-shook with zlw (weakly) vouching for Inner Sticker, but the meaning of that isn't entirely clear yet.
What does that leave? I'm inclined to accept Sister Coyote's claim.
That leave me with nothin'.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 12:44:07 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 5, 2009 12:44:07 GMT -5
1 hour 15 minutes remain.
Inner Stickler (3*) - Natlaw, KidVermicious, Paul Sister Coyote (3) - Almost Human, Kat!, Roosh zlw (2) - sinjin, Pleonast Pollux (1) - Special Ed sachertorte (1) - Pollux Paul (1) - NAF1138
--FCOD
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:01:49 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 5, 2009 13:01:49 GMT -5
Peaches Christ! Unvote: Inner Stickler [/color] Pleonast, I'm treating Pollux and Almost Human as claimed masons. They are weaker in that they have not been explicitly told that the other is Town, but the circumstances indicate higher likelihood of Townness than scumness. Furthermore they serve as placeholders for the "mason" slot in the game. So far no one has counter claimed, this could be for many reasons including: - Pollux and Almost Human are in the 'mason' group for this game - The is no mason group for this game - There is a mason group, but they have opted not to counter claim. I'm treating Pollux and Almost Human as claimed masons for now. I don't think that is unreasonable.[/quote] I think it is unreasonable. Their claim is the perfect scum claim--no powers or alignments to confirm or refute. When one of them is killed and turns up scum, the other has the perfect excuse: they never claimed to know the other's alignment. If we give a claim this weak a pass, then what claim would we not? I think we need to get back to the basics. A claim should only cause us to remove votes if 1. The claimed role is potentially confirmable, either via another player(s) vouching for them (and a subsequent death confirmation of one of them) or via the claimer providing information in the future that can be verified. 2. The claimed role has such valuable powers that it's better to hold off on a lynch. Absent a worthy claim, we're left with evaluating a player based on their actions. I have not seen any behavior from Pollux that convinces me that he is Town. It's fine if others have, but it bothers me that others are letting him off the hook because of a claim that doesn't actually give us anything to work with.
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Merestil Haye
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:03:29 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 5, 2009 13:03:29 GMT -5
1 hour 15 minutes remain. Inner Stickler (3*) - Natlaw, KidVermicious, Paul Sister Coyote (3) - Almost Human, Kat!, Roosh Pollux (1) - Special Ed sachertorte (1) - Pollux zlw (1) - sinjin, Pleonast Paul (1) - NAF1138 --FCOD FCoD, that votecount shows ZLW with 1 vote, then lists two voters. Which is correct?
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:04:36 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 5, 2009 13:04:36 GMT -5
Sorry. 2 votes is correct.
--FCOD
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:07:14 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 5, 2009 13:07:14 GMT -5
Ok it's down to the line. I'm not convinced that SisterC is town. I don't like the tone of the color of her pm. In particular this bit:
This does not seem like somone who has town as their number one priority. And IS is still tied up with her and I think the * part means he's the one under the gun. Ha.
unvote
Sister Coyote
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:08:49 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 5, 2009 13:08:49 GMT -5
Dag nab it:
Vote: Sister Coyote
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:10:38 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 5, 2009 13:10:38 GMT -5
50 minutes remain.
Sister Coyote (4) - Almost Human, Kat!, Roosh, sinjin Inner Stickler (3) - Natlaw, KidVermicious, Paul zlw (1) - Pleonast Pollux (1) - Special Ed sachertorte (1) - Pollux Paul (1) - NAF1138
--FCOD
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:22:40 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 13:22:40 GMT -5
I think it is unreasonable. Their claim is the perfect scum claim--no powers or alignments to confirm or refute. When one of them is killed and turns up scum, the other has the perfect excuse: they never claimed to know the other's alignment. If we give a claim this weak a pass, then what claim would we not? I disagree. The main point for believing them right now is the lack of mason counter-claim, the same as any other game. I find it unlikely for scum to consist of the Groupies AND for there to be NO MASONS. That's all kinds of fucked up. 1. The claimed role is potentially confirmable, either via another player(s) vouching for them (and a subsequent death confirmation of one of them) or via the claimer providing information in the future that can be verified. Standard operating procedure is to allow a mason claim unless counter-claimed. A single mason can do this. We allow it all the time. Of course I'm operating under the assumption that masons exist in the game, but I don't think that assumption is unreasonable at this time. I have not seen any behavior from Pollux that convinces me that he is Town. It's fine if others have, but it bothers me that others are letting him off the hook because of a claim that doesn't actually give us anything to work with. On that I agree with you.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:30:06 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 13:30:06 GMT -5
I agree with the Sister Coyote lynch at this point. I'm not thrilled with it, but we can't pile on someone else in this last hour. We just can't.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:30:40 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 5, 2009 13:30:40 GMT -5
Vote: Sister Coyote
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:33:31 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on May 5, 2009 13:33:31 GMT -5
I agree with the Sister Coyote lynch at this point. I'm not thrilled with it, but we can't pile on someone else in this last hour. We just can't. Agreed. With less than 30 minutes remaining I'm loathe to change my vote now and possibly help cause yet another claim. I'm still not sure about Sister C and even if she is telling the absolute truth her role's less important than an investigator so I'm going to leave my vote where it is.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:35:10 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 5, 2009 13:35:10 GMT -5
Vote count:
Sister Coyote (5) - Almost Human, Kat!, Roosh, sinjin, sachertorte Inner Stickler (3) - Natlaw, KidVermicious, Paul zlw (1) - Pleonast Pollux (1) - Special Ed sachertorte (1) - Pollux Paul (1) - NAF1138
--FCOD
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Merestil Haye
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:36:45 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 5, 2009 13:36:45 GMT -5
That was not very pleasant... not had the shakes like that for quite a while.
Back to the game (assuming I can type properly).
On the claim by the Groupies.
1. Why are there not three of them? Not only would three be the minimum reasonable number for a group of Masons, there were three in canon.
2. The groupies are fickle. Could they flipflop under certain circumstances, hero-worshiping the ELE and changing alignments? Is that why they can't be certain the other(s) are Town? because they might not be?
Or, suppose they are third party, going with whoever wins? That would be my guess - that the Groupies are third party survivor Masons.
3. I'm considering voting for damage limitation purposes. Losing a claimed investigator is far less damaging than losing a claimed message bearer. Lynching a Groupie might actually be better, as then we get some confirmation of the survivor, but it's a bit late to talk about that Today.
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Day One
May 5, 2009 13:40:05 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 5, 2009 13:40:05 GMT -5
I would think it would be far more damaging to lose an investigator?
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